splicing regular-8

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous Equipment' started by BetterSense, May 26, 2009.

  1. BetterSense

    BetterSense Member

    Messages:
    3,126
    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2008
    Location:
    North Caroli
    Shooter:
    35mm
    i'm still waiting for my first-ever roll of regular-8 to come back from processing. In the meantime I bought a editor-viewer, that came with a bunch of tape splices for super-8. Since I can't use the tape for 8mm I will need to buy either some tape or some cement. Which is better, taping or cementing? Do I need any equipment for cementing? I have heard that film cement is nothing but acetone, is that true?

    And the big question: How do you do cement splices? I read the directions that came with the super-8 tape splices I bought, and it looks like you butt the two pieces of film against each other and tape both sides. But surely cement splices aren't butt-splices? There isn't enough room between frames to overlap the two ends, so do you scrape the emulsion off a whole frame, and lap it with the base of the other end?
     
  2. tiberiustibz

    tiberiustibz Member

    Messages:
    1,749
    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Location:
    Tufts Univer
    Shooter:
    35mm
    cementing is better. You scrape off some emulsion, a half frame or something. You need a cement splicer, but the bonds are permanent and the transitions seamless. The cementing process uses a solvent to melt the two strips of film together.

    You can buy the cement from B&H photo.
     
  3. BetterSense

    BetterSense Member

    Messages:
    3,126
    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2008
    Location:
    North Caroli
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Do you really need a cement splicer? What does one look like?

    I heard elsewhere that you could make cement out of acetone with some shredded film dissolved in it to make it gap-filling.
     
  4. tiberiustibz

    tiberiustibz Member

    Messages:
    1,749
    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Location:
    Tufts Univer
    Shooter:
    35mm
    You do need a cement slicer. I suppose it's possible to do by hand but not practical. They'll line everything up for you. Simple.

    You can try making your own if you've heard that works. Personally, if you're buying the splicer you may as well buy the cement. It seems like a gamble. You choice though.
     
  5. Ross Chambers

    Ross Chambers Member

    Messages:
    703
    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2004
    Location:
    Blue Mountai
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    FWIW I can only extrapolate from pro 16mm and 35mm practice.

    Hot (well warm) cement splicing always requires loss of a frame or frames forever. Tape splicing makes butt joins which do not require any loss and can be unspliced and remade if you have a change of heart (of which there are very many in a cutting room)

    Usually an editor cuts a work print, tape splices it, the negative cutter then matches the final cut work print and hot cement splices the master.

    Cement splices are regarded as archival, tape splices will--even using the best tape available--eventually ooze adhesive which will transfer itself to the layer on top etc and wreak whatever havoc it can.

    I'm not sure whether 8mm splicers with heating elements are made, I'd suggest just leaving the join to dry a little longer if the splicer is not heated (the element in pro splicers supplies only a gentle heat)

    It was heartbreaking for me to find the condition of some irreplaceable footage which the TV network had tape spliced because it was easier at the time.

    Regards - Ross
     
  6. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

    Messages:
    7,513
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2007
    Location:
    Midwest USA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    This Bolex splicer is great and perhaps the best made for regular-8 editing. It scrapes the film to 1/2 thickness at the overlap and, if you don't get any bubbles in the glue, the only visual defect is a fine line through one frame. Its not heated so you have to wait a little before you open it up after each splice. I use Kodak film cement. I have also used Acetone but sometimes it can evaporate quicker than you can close the splicer.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 27, 2009
  7. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

    Messages:
    7,513
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2007
    Location:
    Midwest USA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Also, for playing regular 8, look into one of these. Again, perhaps the best regular-8 projector ever made. Its all cast and machined aluminum. A very precision item.
    [​IMG]
     
  8. BetterSense

    BetterSense Member

    Messages:
    3,126
    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2008
    Location:
    North Caroli
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Yeah, the projector I have is a Kodak brownie 500, and I don't even think you can adjust its running speed.
     
  9. Europan

    Europan Member

    Messages:
    158
    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Location:
    Basel, Switzerland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Nitrate film is spliced with a cement that consists basically of amyl acetate as solvent with acetone added and other chemicals.

    Acetate film is spliced with cement basically mixed from acetone, acetic acid and other components.

    PETP polyester film is spliced either hot (welded) or cold and dry (pressure sensitive or self adhesive tape).

    Most cements for acetate film contain dioxane, methyl chloride, and more harmful chemicals. If you wish to work with a harmless product, try PARATAX. That is a slow binding cement. It stinks of vinegar but is not poisonous. Sold by this company: www.filmkunst.ch
     
  10. BetterSense

    BetterSense Member

    Messages:
    3,126
    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2008
    Location:
    North Caroli
    Shooter:
    35mm
    I got my film back from the lab, and it works. I definitely need editing capabilities though because I ruined about half of it through accidental exposure to room light. I can't find regular 8mm tape anywhere on the web.

    This projector is terrible...I have to hold my finger against the upper spool or it will backlash everywhere, the auto-threading doesn't really work, about half the times I try to use it the image is jumpy, and the top spool randomly falls off.
     
  11. Europan

    Europan Member

    Messages:
    158
    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Location:
    Basel, Switzerland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    BetterSense
    Get yourself a better projector and feel at ease. My recommendation: Bell & Howell Filmo after relube, Bell & Howell Autoload with a fresh lamp socket for cold light mirror lamps, Bolex-Paillard 18-5 with a fresh lamp socket, Bolex-Paillard M 8, Eumig P 8 (halogen lamp models) after thorough cleaning and fresh lubrication, Bauer T 10.