Stand Development - what is it?

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by silveror0, Mar 27, 2011.

  1. silveror0

    silveror0 Member

    Messages:
    782
    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2007
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    I've encountered several references to the term "stand development" in some threads, but no descriptions of what that is exactly. Would someone who does this please explain it? Does it concern film and/or paper development? For what purpose is it used? Speculation is not helpful. Curiosity rules. Thanks.
     
  2. ann

    ann Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,920
    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2002
    Shooter:
    35mm
    It is a method of developing film without agitation. I use semi-stand often, which means the ratio of developer is high, the times long and the agitation every 3 minutes,
     
  3. Rick A

    Rick A Subscriber

    Messages:
    7,417
    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2009
    Location:
    northern Pa.
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Its when you dont have a chair to sit on. I stand up and develope, and agitate normal for my method.
     
  4. 2F/2F

    2F/2F Member

    Messages:
    8,004
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2008
    Location:
    Los Angeles,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    It is a film development method used primarily to heavily reduce contrast. It is all over these forums, and other ones. Make sure you click the check boxes when you do a search here, or else you get nothing.
     
  5. Mainecoonmaniac

    Mainecoonmaniac Subscriber

    Messages:
    3,959
    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2009
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    The advantage is that if you're lazy it's a great way to develop film. It's an excellent technique for high contrast negs. Because you're agitating little or none, the developer in highlight areas exhaust faster so it develops less. Therefore, your highlights are less likely to block up. The down side is the possibility of streaks. You usually do it with highly diluted developer.
     
  6. graywolf

    graywolf Member

    Messages:
    168
    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2009
    Location:
    Boone, North
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    It is a method of developing film to completion. That is using up all the developer that is in contact with the film. I is a form of compensating development. It is a lazy man's way to develop film because you do not even need to be there after pouring in the developer. It does away with time and temperature worries.

    To give you an idea, I normally pour in the developer (Rodinal 1+100 in my case), agitate with three slow inversions and go do something else for an hour. One time I forgot and left it in for 2.5 hours. Ruined? Nope, I could not tell any difference from the one hour time.

    Some people, like me, love it. Some hate it. Some, can not leave the tank alone and wind up with very contrasty negatives. Agitating defeats the purpose, and it just becomes insanely long development.
     
  7. silveror0

    silveror0 Member

    Messages:
    782
    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2007
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    Thanks for the responses. I suspected that's what it's about, but was curious to know for sure. I'm doing tests now for film speed, contractions and expansions with HC-110 / HP5 sheet film. Ansel describes in "The Negative" how there's compensating action with this combo that produces a very soft negative. He suggests highly diluted developer (i.e., 1+30 from stock solution), a minimum 30-sec water pre-soak, constant agitation for the first minute, then 15 seconds every 3-4 minutes, for a total development time approaching 20 minutes. Minimum total agitation must be experimented with to produce a negative without mottle or streaking. Since I'm using 4x5 sheet film in trays, I've put the film in a hanger to keep it submerged during the long stand and agitate by slowly raising/lowering the hanger keeping it submerged, whereas tray rocking produced unacceptable results. 20 minutes total dev time produced good results.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 27, 2011
  8. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

    Messages:
    6,240
    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2010
    Location:
    Southern USA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    This is really an unfortunate choice of phrase because stand development results in film being only partially developed. The developer exhausts before the film is completly developed. This is why the image tones are distorted to achieve lower contrast.

    The technique is useful for taming contrast but should not be used in other situations because of laziness.
     
  9. Mainecoonmaniac

    Mainecoonmaniac Subscriber

    Messages:
    3,959
    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2009
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Just kidding about being a lazy process

    This is really an unfortunate choice of phrase because stand development results in film being only partially developed. The developer exhausts before the film is completly developed. This is why the image tones are distorted to achieve lower contrast.

    The real lazy ones send film out :D
     
  10. Dan Henderson

    Dan Henderson Member

    Messages:
    1,890
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Location:
    Blue Ridge,
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    As opposed to being a "lazy" person's development method of choice (I realize at least some of the posters made this statement with tongue in cheek), I submit that it is the "patient" person's method. As mentioned by others, it involves longer development times; much longer in the case of low luminance range negatives.

    The various descriptions of infrequent agitation confused me, but it seems that "stand" development includes no agitation, "semi-stand" means agitating halfway through the total development time, and "reduced," "limited," or some other similar descriptor means agitate every 2 or 3 minutes, or maybe at the 1/4, 1/2, and 3/4 points.

    I myself have adopted semi-stand in Pyrocat, and use it for all negatives, whether they need reduced, normal, or lengthened development. Simple is better for me, and I get beautiful negatives every time.
     
  11. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

    Messages:
    6,240
    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2010
    Location:
    Southern USA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Yes, but what do the prints look like? In the Mikado, Katasha has the most beautiful elbow of any woman in Japan. Of course, her face frightens the horses. :smile:

    I have seen some beautiful negatives that are impossible to print. Before anyone contenplates using stand development as their system for all lighting situations they need to do some extensive reading on The Zone System.
     
  12. vpwphoto

    vpwphoto Member

    Messages:
    1,206
    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2011
    Location:
    Indiana
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I experimented on my own (years ago) and experience "bromide burn" streaks. I'll have to post the photo sometime.

    Seems I am always ahead of the times.
     
  13. Athiril

    Athiril Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,947
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2009
    Location:
    Melbourne, V
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I get great tones out of normal contrast scenes with stand and semi-stand, it is superb.
     
  14. michael_r

    michael_r Subscriber

    Messages:
    6,542
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2010
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Some basic generalizations regarding stand development besides the obvious risk of uneven development (I'm defining "stand" as either no agitation after the first minute or an additional short agitation sequence about halfway through the development time - typically 30-90 minutes):

    1. Typically works best with slower films
    2. Typically works best with highly diluted non-solvent developers
    3. Typically results in higher effective film speed - but also somewhat less pronounced highlight compression than one might expect
    4. Typically results in enhanced or sometimes exagerrated (halo) edge effects

    Results can be quite different than compensating development (ie reduced agitation with diluted developers). The overall tonal scale and particularly micro-contrast produced by stand development are unique. Make prints of test negatives to see the results and decide if it is what you are looking for. Some people claim stand development gives negatives that "print themselves". I don't think this is the case. It is not a fail-safe, just another, different technique.

    Regarding highlight compression, if this is your goal, I have found even more control is possible with less severe/risky reduced agitation/dilution methods, however usually with lower effective film speed than pure stand development.

    Regarding edge effects ehnancing apparent sharpness, reduced agitation methods also do this, although the effect is more exagerrated with stand development. Note however unless the edge effects are very exagerrated, substantial enlargement is typically required in order to see the difference.
     
  15. mabman

    mabman Member

    Messages:
    830
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    Location:
    Winnipeg, MB
    Shooter:
    35mm
    I use semi-stand for all B&W films at all speeds (35mm and 120 for now). For each roll of film, I use Rodinal 1+200 (1 part Rodinal, 200 parts water) in a 600 ml Patterson tank (so, 3 ml Rodinal, 600 ml water). Agitate using 5 slow taurus inversions, then leave for 1 hour. Agitate for another 5 inversions, then leave for another hour. Dump, water stop, fix, rinse as normal.

    For me this has several advantages:

    - all time/temp/agitation is the same, regardless of film - so, your technique can be absolutely consistent
    - it develops to completion, so if the film was capable of recording a scene at whatever ISO/EI it was shot at, it will be developed. So, pushed or pulled on the same roll of film (such as Tri-X or HP5+), it doesn't matter.
    - the agitation in the middle eliminates any uneven development/bromide drag issues that might occur with a "pure" no-agitation stand technique (which I also tried), but is still hands-off enough to be drop-dead easy and not stressful at all :smile:
    - the extended time in the water-heavy developer ensures most films' anti-halation dye wash out completely right off the hop (actually, so far it's worked for *all* films except some older Pan-F I left undeveloped for over a year)

    The disadvantage, of course, is it takes 2 hrs. to process a roll of film :smile: But I'm OK with that, I don't shoot in any kind of Winogrand-ish quanitity :tongue:

    Try it, see if you like it. Chacun son gout, as the French say.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 28, 2011
  16. Dan Henderson

    Dan Henderson Member

    Messages:
    1,890
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Location:
    Blue Ridge,
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    This method gives me negatives that allow me to make prints that satisfy me, often without the need for extensive dodging and burning.
     
  17. madgardener

    madgardener Member

    Messages:
    411
    Joined:
    May 28, 2011
    Location:
    Allentown PA
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Instead of a new thread, I thought it would be better to resurrect this one. I just got some HC110 and want to use if for some Freestyle arista.edu ultra. I was thinking a "semi stand" with dilution "H" and agitate about half way through.

    In the past when I have used the Arista liquid developer, the brighter lit areas are blown out to the point its nearly impossible to see those areas.

    Would semi-stand in HC110 improve things, or should I consider something different?
     
  18. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

    Messages:
    6,240
    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2010
    Location:
    Southern USA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
  19. michael_r

    michael_r Subscriber

    Messages:
    6,542
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2010
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I've never used Arista developer, but HC110 is a flexible general purpose solvent developer. It will not "blow out" highlights unless the exposure range is very long and/or the film is overdeveloped. Even with very high contrast subjects, dilution and agitation alterations can be made to control contrast without resorting to stand development, which should be considered an extreme procedure. Stand development should not be viewed simply as a procedure for contrast reduction. There are simpler, more controlled ways of doing that. Stand development is a technique that produces it's own unique tonalities and/or edge effects. You should first establish a controlled "normal" exposure/development routine with your film and developer before moving to stand or semi-stand techniques.

    It is also worth noting just because highlights look dense in the negative, or print white, doesn't mean they are blown out. There may very well be detail in the negative which needs to be brought into the print with burning/dodging or other print manipulations. Perhaps a more mild reduction in negative development will make your negatives easier to print without extreme measures. Sometimes extreme contrast reductions can destroy highlight separations, which leads them to be truly "blown out".
     
  20. madgardener

    madgardener Member

    Messages:
    411
    Joined:
    May 28, 2011
    Location:
    Allentown PA
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Thanks for the information and advice. The suggestions in the link you provided, Mr. Koch' is worth a lot. Thank you Michael for your information too. I found both to be very informative. Thanks again!