Stop bath

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by modafoto, Nov 10, 2004.

  1. modafoto

    modafoto Subscriber

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    Hi

    I would like to hear your opinion on stop bath. What do you use and why?
    Myself, I use either this or acetic acid.

    What are the pros and cons of stop bath vs. plain water.

    Morten
     
  2. VoidoidRamone

    VoidoidRamone Subscriber

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    I've been using plain water for a while now. One thing is that it's cheaper. The second thing is that I use TF-4 which doesn't require a stop-bath. Other than that, I don't really have a great reason. I'm sure others will have better responses and actually know what they're talking about. -Grant
     
  3. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Normally I use alkaline fix, and either water or nothing at all as stop.

    In the rare cases that I need a stop bath (e.g. lith printing), I use citric acid. About 1/3 of a 25g-packet from the supermarket in 1 liter water - close enough to "modastop".
     
  4. Bruce Osgood

    Bruce Osgood Membership Council Council

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    I use distilled white vinegar at 1+3.

    I think a Stop Bath (as opposed to a water bath) is a must. It will STOP development when you feel it is time, whereas, a water bath allows the print to continue developing for as long as 5 minutes in my experience. I use a water bath between developer 1 and 2 when split developing for just these reasons but after final development the Stop Bath will additionally prevent carry-over into the Fix(s).

    No, my prints do not smell like a salad.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 10, 2004
  5. sparx

    sparx Member

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    I stopped using stop after similar discussions here a while back. Now i just use water with film and print developing and haven't noticed any differences in the final product. So I will continue to just use water.
     
  6. Leon

    Leon Member

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    I use a very mild stop when printing - jsut a tiny squirt of stop in a big tray of water - when I've run out of stop I will probably use a few drops of vinegar. As long as you assess the print once it is fully fixed, I dont think the carry over of development really matters too much does it? once it's fixed, it's fixed. i reckon consistent practice is more important. If you're getting the reults you want from your methods, why worry?
     
  7. Ed Sukach

    Ed Sukach Member

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    I was about to ask ...

    The one place I've found stop bath to be a necessity is between color developer and bleach-fix in color printing. I have a *bunch* of literature advising against it in ALL film developing, especially color ... but each to their own strokes.

    1:3 seems rather intense... Does this equal anything like a 1% - 2% solution of acetic acid?
     
  8. fschifano

    fschifano Member

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    Unless there is a recommendation to not use an acid stop, then you are much better off using it. The stuff is incredibly cheap, as photo chemicals go, and the life of your fixer - not so cheap - will be extended. Whether you prefer citric acid or acetic acid is your choice and doesn't matter much. White vinegar works, but isn't really cheaper than a prepared indicating stop bath.
     
  9. Kirk Keyes

    Kirk Keyes Member

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    I use a stop bath for both paper and film. Stop bath has the amazing ability to halt the development step, and to prevent the formation of dichroic fog that can occur when fixing has begun and development has not stopped. With paper, it can extent the life of the fixer.

    For paper, I used citric acid solution as it has no odor.

    For film, in the past I used regular indicating stop, but now I an using a buffered stop bath similar to what is described in "The Film Developing Cookbook". This is a solution of acetic acid and sodium acetate. It is supposed to stop very quickly due to a higher acid content, and also has a high dissolved solids content that is supposed to help with swelling of the emulsion.

    As far as stop bath with pyro developers go, I found that I could not detect a significant difference between using a stop bath and a water bath with PMK processed films. The only difference I found was that the water bath processed films were slightly higher in density, but I would attribute that difference to the fact that the development was not halted as quickly with the water bath as it was with a stop bath. And the difference in densitites was small. So I use a stop with PMK.
     
  10. Lee Shively

    Lee Shively Member

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    Kodak Indicator Stop Bath. It's the only thing I've ever used, it works, it's available, it's cheap--so I continue to use it.
     
  11. blansky

    blansky Subscriber

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    I hate the smell so I use Ilfostop (odorless) for paper and water for film.



    Michael
     
  12. ken s

    ken s Member

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    Hello, I buy a gallon of Glacial Acetic Acid, make a 28% stock solution and then dilute from there to a working solution. It is really cheap and I only buy Glacial once or twice a year. To make 28%, dilute 3:8 or 9oz. Glacial to 24oz. water. To make a working solution dilute 48ml Acetic Acid(28%) to make 1 liter. Hope this helps, Ken
     
  13. Bruce Osgood

    Bruce Osgood Membership Council Council

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    This is a quote from Richard Knappow from Pure-Silver responding to a similar question.

    Most of the distilled white vinegar I've examined locally in New England, is 5%
    acetic acid. That should be diluted with two or three parts water to one part
    vinegar to keep it in the range of commercial formulas. The concentration
    does vary with location but is usually printed in the bottle.
    Kodak SB-1 is 48 ml of 28% acetic acid per liter, or 0.28x48/1000 = 1.3%
    5% acetic acid in vinegar diluted 1 + 2 is 5/3 = 1.6%,
    or if diluted 1 + 3, 1.25%.


    I have no idea about color processing.
     
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  15. Konical

    Konical Subscriber

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    Kodak Indictor Stop Bath for paper; water for film.

    Konical
     
  16. tbm

    tbm Member

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    I keep in stock Kodak's acetic acid which I dilute according to the bottle's instructions. I use it while making prints in my darkroom, but since I prefer to subject my films, during processing, to as few foreign elements as possible, I use only water as a stop bath which is at the same temperature as the developer and fixer. This has never caused any film development problems at all.
     
  17. John McCallum

    John McCallum Member

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    Personally I don't think Bath should be stopped at all. It's a great place with lots going for it! :mad:
     
  18. modafoto

    modafoto Subscriber

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    Sorry for this fault...

    ...I still do not understand why a perfectly nice print which looks stunning in the developer needs to be fixed afterwards....If it ain't broken, don't fix it...right?
     
  19. oriecat

    oriecat Member

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    That's a great line, Morten! I suppose I should expect no less from the High Priest... Praise Rodinal! :D
     
  20. Adrian Twiss

    Adrian Twiss Member

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    I am moving to an alkaline fix regime for both films and prints so will be using a plain water stop. However I used a very similar citric acid mix to yours. I found it effective, odourless and very economical. Like you I used once and then threw it away. I will probably contiue to use stop bath for colour prints.
     
  21. unohuu

    unohuu Member

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    The ilford version because I chose the Ilfosol as my first developer.
     
  22. Soeren

    Soeren Member

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    Hi
    I use water rinse for film and Citric acid, in about the same concentration as you Morten, for paper. I think there is no need to spoil the fine odeur of Neutol and especially Rodinal with acetic acid.
    Ken, be carefull with that clacial acetic acid ok.
    Cheers
     
  23. modafoto

    modafoto Subscriber

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    Nice to see another dane here :tongue:

    Søren, I have PM'ed you. :smile:
     
  24. Soeren

    Soeren Member

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    Yeah, and another member of your church.
    Ok it supports the ø hmm
    Yes Morten I have PM´ed back.
    Søren
     
  25. gainer

    gainer Subscriber

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    The standard white vinegar is 5%, so the 1+3 is 1.25%. Just about right for stop bath.
     
  26. isaacc7

    isaacc7 Member

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    Water for film,

    I've been using water stop for film for years, it works fine. I'm curious to know what sort of problems people have had with not using a stop with film. I do use a stop with prints, mainly to extend the life of my fixer. I've been toying with the idea of moving to an all alkaline printing regimen, so maybe I'll ditch the stop one of these days...

    Isaac