Strange Flaking Problem with Certain B&W Papers

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by ineffablething, Apr 16, 2006.

  1. ineffablething

    ineffablething Member

    Messages:
    229
    Joined:
    May 8, 2005
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    I usually contact print my 8x10 negs on 8 1/2 x11 or 11x14 paper because I think it looks better. To save money, I've started to print on 8x10 paper. I've noticed that when using the Bergger VC warmtone or the Oriental warmtone papers, that the black border around the print flakes off in the wash. I've never had this happen before and I am confused. I've never had emulsion flake off before and I am wondering why it is happening on two separate papers. It really looks bad. To be precise, I am using Ilford warmtone developer and selenium toning and washing for 30 minutes.

    W.
     
  2. ron mcelroy

    ron mcelroy Member

    Messages:
    60
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2003
    Location:
    memphis
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    I've had that happen with papers in the past. My problem came from too long total wet time combined with warm processing temps. When I live in Memphis my incoming water temp in the summer can get as high as 85F.
     
  3. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

    Messages:
    25,908
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I am assuming that this is FB paper, as I don't think Bergger coats RC.

    Sometimes the Baryta does not have enough softening agent in it (although this only shows up when dry) or it is over calendared making it subjet to flaking. Another cause of flaking is not having enough gelatin in the baryta.

    PE
     
  4. Changeling1

    Changeling1 Member

    Messages:
    659
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2005
    Location:
    Southern Cal
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    Hmmmmm.... I can't remember that ever happening with a photo paper
    MADE IN AMERICA-U.S.A. :wink:
     
  5. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

    Messages:
    25,908
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter:
    Multi Format

    I am going to assume, from all of the comments on coating defects we have seen here, and this problem as well, that coating quality is on a slow decline.

    Things may get worse rather than better in this regard. IDK for sure.

    PE
     
  6. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

    Messages:
    20,219
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2003
    Location:
    local
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    i was sending a job out today,
    and noticed about a good handful prints have the same defect.
    i spoke with some at ilford this morning, and they suggested
    it was a defect in the batch .... about 15sheets out of the box seem to have it so far ...
    i hope it won't happen to all of them, i'd hate to make 200 reprints :sad:
     
  7. Matthew Gorringe

    Matthew Gorringe Member

    Messages:
    461
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2006
    Location:
    Sydney, Aust
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I saw the same thing last year when working in very hot conditions. My solutions would have been 25 degrees and wet time about an hour and a half. In my case it only happened around the edges of the print and I had enough room to trim it away.

    Do the flakes start at the edges of the paper in your cases?
     
  8. Maris

    Maris Member

    Messages:
    896
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2006
    Location:
    Noosa, Australia
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I occasionally see some tiny edge and corner flaking with a variety of papers when contacting a 8x10 negative on to 8x10 paper. This does not happen when the same paper is used with white borders for ordinary projection exposures; or so I thought.

    On closer looking the flaking is still there but it is hard to see on a white edge and really obvious on a black edge. My cure? Just guillotine 1mm off each black edge and things look neat again!