Strange Marks on Edge of 120 Negs

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Alex C, Aug 15, 2003.

  1. Alex C

    Alex C Member

    Messages:
    5
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2003
    Location:
    Ireland
    I have encountered Strange Blotchy Marks along one edge of My 120 Negs.
    Not happening on all of my films though.
    Developer is Rodinal 1 to 50,
    Paterson Tank 500ml of Chemistry.
    30 inversions for first minute, 3 every minute thereafter.
    Water for Stop Bath.
    Fix 6 min's in Hypam.
    Wash and Dry as Normal.
    Film is HP5 and FP4.
    Have processed Hundred's of Film's this one has me slightly puzzled.
    Could I be over Agitating ???

    Any Help Appreciated.
    Camera is Pentax 67.
     
  2. Robert

    Robert Member

    Messages:
    747
    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2002
    Some people claim it's something to do with the patterson reels. I don't know I never saw it when I used patterson reels. I used to invert for 10seconds every minute. I also used a fairly dilute developer [1:3 d23] and that may have been a factor. Maybe somebody can explain what it is with the patterson reels.
     
  3. glbeas

    glbeas Member

    Messages:
    3,307
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2002
    Location:
    Roswell, Ga.
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    How about a better description of the marks, color, diffuse or hard edged, etc?
    You can get marks on one edge, upper side in tank, from fixer being too low and leaving unfixed areas or having trapped air bubbles cause the same.
     
  4. Ed Sukach

    Ed Sukach Member

    Messages:
    4,519
    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2002
    Location:
    Ipswich, Mas
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    How deep into the frame are they?
    I've used both Paterson and JOBO reels and have never experienced anything like that on *one edge* only. I'd suspect the volume of chemicals.
    One thought - is there a possibility of left over wetting agent foaming and causing uneven devolpment/ fixing? Which edge is it - the lower or upper as the tank lies when not being agitated?
     
  5. Alex C

    Alex C Member

    Messages:
    5
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2003
    Location:
    Ireland
    I'm going to check all of my recent film's.
    I will get to the bottom of this and report back at a later stage.
    It might actually benefit soeone else some day.
    I think the cause might be foaming of the developer which I have noticed during agitation.Anyone Agree ????
     
  6. Black Dog

    Black Dog Member

    Messages:
    3,138
    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2003
    Location:
    Eight miles high
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I've had similar problems -I usually use PMK or another staining dev. Using fresh reels usually helps and make sure you rinse everything after use.

    BD
     
  7. Alex C

    Alex C Member

    Messages:
    5
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2003
    Location:
    Ireland
    Just posted a picture in the non Gallery Section.
    Showing the Problem.

    Heading Negative Problem's.
     
  8. bjorke

    bjorke Member

    Messages:
    2,032
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2003
    Location:
    SF & Surroun
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    That's what they look like, though as Les points out they'd be unusual on only one side.

    If you are using plastic reels, are you agitating the tank via inversion, or by twisting the little handle? The twist handle has caused surge marks for me in the past, I now use inversion exclusively and have never had a problem since.

    Cheers,
     
  9. Alex C

    Alex C Member

    Messages:
    5
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2003
    Location:
    Ireland
    Paterson Tank 500ml of Chemistery as reccomended by Paterson.
    I have even made a small plastic spacer for the centre column in the tank to make sure th Reel cannot slide up the column during Processing.
    Agitation by Inversion method.
    This problem has happened with Tri X Hp5 and Fp4 all in 120 doesn't seem to happen on 35mm.
    It is happening with different developers Rodinal and HC 110.
    Sometimes it is hardly visible on the Negative but shows up on the final Print.
    I'm going to try mixing a larger volume of Chemistery maybe 600ml with less vigorous agitation and even be more thorough in washing the tank afterwards than I am already, although I think my tank washing is not at fault.
     
  10. Nige

    Nige Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,105
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2002
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I was getting similar marks recently so I switched from inversion agitation to twirling and adding an extra 50ml (Paterson System 4 tank) and they've disappeared...

    Since this contradicts some of the above advice, I think you just need to try a few different things to find one that works for you.
     
  11. Aggie

    Aggie Member

    Messages:
    4,925
    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2003
    Location:
    So. Utah
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    ..
     
  12. Ed Sukach

    Ed Sukach Member

    Messages:
    4,519
    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2002
    Location:
    Ipswich, Mas
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I've just checked - I assemlbed the reel and spindle and placed them into the Paterson tank without the "liner". 500 ml *will* cover - but there isn't a great deal of room to spare.

    Interesting comment about a "plastic spacer". My Paterson reel is quite tight on the spindle - there is *very* little chance of its sliding.
    I wonder - You DO have a Paterson "spindle".... smooth on the bottom, with no bumps to prevent the spindle from rotating, as are found on the JOBO spindles...? JOBO spindles are considerably smaller in diameter, and the reel would be free to slide up and down in inversion.

    Other than that ... It must either be that 500ml is not quite enough, or that, in some way, the reel is chemically contaminated during development.

    Or ... uh,... maybe burning some yarrow as a sacrifice to the gods of photography ... ?
     
  13. Ed Sukach

    Ed Sukach Member

    Messages:
    4,519
    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2002
    Location:
    Ipswich, Mas
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    And HAH!!! I just double-checked: with a Paterson tank and a JOBO spindle, 500ml will *NOT* cover. The anti-rotation "bumps" hold the reel much higher.

    That is where all my money is going now: A Paterson reel mismatched to a JOBO spindle.
     
  14. Ed Sukach

    Ed Sukach Member

    Messages:
    4,519
    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2002
    Location:
    Ipswich, Mas
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    OOps! Disregard. Sent the same message twice.
     
  15. clogz

    clogz Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,842
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2002
    Location:
    Rotterdam, T
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    My best bet: don't invert the tank too vigorously.