Subliminal image technique

Discussion in 'Ethics and Philosophy' started by cliveh, Feb 5, 2012.

  1. cliveh

    cliveh Subscriber

    Messages:
    4,810
    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2010
    Shooter:
    35mm RF
    I have sometimes wondered if a subliminal image technique was introduced into old movies. I remember watching some Fred Astaire dancing routines and wondered if some of the optimum composition frames of the dance in motion were copied and repeated for a slightly longer duration (perhaps ½ a second) to give that wonderful graphic sense to the choreography. Perhaps I’m just being cynical, or did anybody else notice this?
     
  2. brucemuir

    brucemuir Member

    Messages:
    2,265
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2007
    Location:
    Metro DC are
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Hitchcock used a different framerate sometimes for effect and quite a few others.

    I recently saw a docu on the great cinematographer Jack Cardiff where it mentions his use of the technique in the classic ballet "The Red Shoes"

    He varied the framerate so the dancer would hover in the air for a split second longer than normal.
     
  3. cliveh

    cliveh Subscriber

    Messages:
    4,810
    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2010
    Shooter:
    35mm RF
    I understand what you are saying, but I was talking about frame copies, as opposed to just speed frame variation.
     
  4. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

    Messages:
    7,515
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2007
    Location:
    Midwest USA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    If you are not watching the movie at the cinema, you are likely seeing the '2 to 3 pulldown' effect. Every fourth frame the motion seem to stop. Watch in slow motion and see. The rhythm of the dance probably lined up with the 2:3 pulldown.
     
  5. nick mulder

    nick mulder Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,204
    Joined:
    May 15, 2005
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    They're talking 1/2 a second though - and they could be in a PAL territory...

    Yes, things like this have been done with optical/step-printers

    Assuming it is there in what you remember --> well spotted :wink:
     
  6. Aristophanes

    Aristophanes Member

    Messages:
    505
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Shooter:
    35mm
    IIRC dance sequences were shot at differing frame rates dependent on the pace, background, and other variables. I think there is some mention of it in a Gene Kelly biography. He was a meticulous technician.
     
  7. blansky

    blansky Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,974
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2002
    Location:
    Wine country, N. Cal.
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I think the definitive movie using inserted images into frames was the Exorcist. They also threw in techniques like squealing pigs in the soundtrack as well as lowering the sound and throwing out the focus slightly, just before something scary happened so you would draw in to hear and see, just before they sprang it on you, and scared the shit out of you.
     
  8. nick mulder

    nick mulder Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,204
    Joined:
    May 15, 2005
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    Hand cranked cameras in the filming also... exposure might shift slightly, but it's done
     
  9. michaelbsc

    michaelbsc Member

    Messages:
    2,106
    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2007
    Location:
    South Caroli
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    What's the reason to think they didn't use every trick in the book as well as tricks that weren't in the book.

    After all, they weren't documentary reporters making newsreels. Their job was to hook the audience.

    It's like dodging and burning, but instead of being on steroids it's on steroids with a jet pack.

    So it wouldn't surprise me to find that they did all of those things.