Suggestions for Cold Toned Paper

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by VaryaV, Oct 6, 2011.

  1. VaryaV

    VaryaV Member

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    Greetings! I'm working on a new project with a different film, developer and paper then I have worked with in the past. I want something totally different and outside my normal comfort zone.

    What I am looking for is a cold toned paper with a slight blue shift... but only 'slight'. I would like a Graded 4 paper look but not averse to using filters to get the look what I want.

    What are some of your favorite cold toned papers?

    Thanks.
     
  2. Jeff Kubach

    Jeff Kubach Member

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    I think there is cool tone from Iford.

    Jeff
     
  3. michael_r

    michael_r Subscriber

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    I don't know of any true cold toned FB papers left, unless there are some eastern European ones but I'm not very familiar with those. Agfa Brovira was one of the best graded neutral/cold papers in my opinion, but of course that's long gone. These papers were not really blue-black though, just neutral and would tend toward colder tones (blue-black or cool purple) in cold tone developers and with toning.

    One thing you might want to try is gold toning on a neutral toned paper. That'll give you variable degrees of blue-black depending on the paper (use a neutral paper that tones well like Oriental VC FB for example). I think gold toning would result in blue-black tones on most neutral papers like Ilford MG IV etc. It's also a great archival treatment. There are also cold tone developers around which can cool neutral papers.
     
  4. Mike Wilde

    Mike Wilde Member

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    Take a neutral toned developer, and dump in some benzotriazole restrainer.

    It will shift things to cool in a hurry. Powerful stuff; a little goes a long way.

    I mix it as a 1% solution, and add on the order of 15-20ml at a time to a litre of working strength paper developer.

    Because it is a restrainer, development times and perhaps expsoure times will shift from the pre-BZT treatment.

    Longer development times may also alter contrast, so a half a grade tweak may also be required.
     
  5. Peter Schrager

    Peter Schrager Subscriber

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    try Slavich...probably the coldest tone paper out there..
    Best, Peter
     
  6. Neal

    Neal Subscriber

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    Dear VaryaV,

    Try a box of Kentmere. It won't go to waste.

    Neal Wydra
     
  7. eddie

    eddie Subscriber

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    Have you thought about toning? If you find a paper which comes close, gold toning should get you the rest of the way.
     
  8. VaryaV

    VaryaV Member

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    Thanks for all your suggestions and helpful tips. I have packs of both the Slavich and Kentmere will see how they work out. I was hoping to get the results without toning but I do have a bottle of gold on the shelf I can try that and Mike's suggestion and add a restrainer if at that point I am still searching.

    Normally I work my subjects very dark and selenium toned, this time I want a light, cold, translucent look for my toys.

    Just so you know, I'm tearing apart an oscilloscope and I am going to use part of the filament light to capture line workers. Will post the results after a few weeks of testing film and papers.

    Thanks all! :smile:
     
  9. VaryaV

    VaryaV Member

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    I was just looking for something different from what I already have... y'all are good at keeping secrets... :tongue:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 7, 2011
  10. MDR

    MDR Member

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    Kentmere (or most other papers) toned in Rollei Selenia Selenium Toner (different Formula to Kodak toner gives bluish tones) 1:2 dilution results in very cold deep blue blacks.

    Dominik
     
  11. Martin Aislabie

    Martin Aislabie Subscriber

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    MattKing Subscriber

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  13. maart

    maart Member

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    The already mentioned Kentmere Fineprint I do agree, especially developed in Dektol 1:2: there you will have your shade of blue, very slight.

    Maarten
     
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  15. kevs

    kevs Member

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    Hi,

    Ilford Multigrade IV turns a very subtle blue (but it's difficult to notice except by comparison) when fully toned in selenium; I've used this to good effect in the past. Otherwise, if they still make it, Kentmere Bromide is/was a graded paper with a trad bromide emulsion.

    Hth,
    kevs.
     
  16. Jerevan

    Jerevan Subscriber

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    Fomabrom? I like it, despite the faffing about in semidarkness (needs red light).
     
  17. iconimages

    iconimages Member

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    Cold Toned Paper

    Try using agfa and LPD developer(is still available)
     
  18. Roger Cole

    Roger Cole Member

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    It's also a) only in RC, and b) only in sizes up to 11x14.

    Hey Ilford, give us a cooltone FB to go with WTFB!
     
  19. VaryaV

    VaryaV Member

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    I have tried all the papers listed but not this one which I will with this combo. I am really looking for something different and I will know it when I find it.

    I don't generally use VC papers, only FB but yes, Ilford please give us a Cooltone FB preferably Graded paper.... pretty please... :D

    I am still testing out films and developers so I won't get to the paper for another week or two but I will let you all know what I end up with. and I will probably go with a Gold Toner as well. Probably.
     
  20. Roger Cole

    Roger Cole Member

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    Not much market for graded papers anymore. I haven't used graded papers in years and unless someone comes out with one that's just outstandingly good or unique in some way I don't plan to do so. Modern VC papers are just so good there's no reason to stock multiple grades of the same paper and size, mess around with split development, and give up the advantages of burning different areas with different filters.

    If you really must have graded, either the Slavich (which is supposed to be quite cold) or you might try Gallerie in selenium. The old Gallery cooled down nicely in selenium though it was mostly a move from warm/green to neutral. Modern Gallery is said to be closer to old Ilfobrom and I haven't tried it (or any Gallery since the late 80s.)

    I can vouch for the combination of Adox MCC 110 and LPD being beautiful. I really, really like this combination, but it's probably more "cool neutral" than really cold. This is with LPD at the normal, neutral dilution (1+4 from the liquid concentrate or 1+2 from stock mixed from powder.) I haven't tried it with stronger dilutions for colder tone but may try that.

    It does change color in selenium but I don't care for it. After five minutes at 1+19 in my trial it started to take on a purple cast I didn't like. So my display print on this combo was toned for three minutes, enough to give a slight improvement in the dark values without shifting the color to purple. My darkroom was pretty warm at the time though (a few weeks ago here in Georgia) and solution temperature was about 76F. You might adjust times accordingly.

    But if you completely want to avoid toning this will at least give you a very beautiful, rich print with a "neutral-cool" tone.
     
  21. ROL

    ROL Member

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    Slavich Unibrom is cold toned, cheap, a little thin, and does not require a red safelight, as indicated on the package. Amber lights work fine as with other papers (but check yours to be sure.).

    Fomabrom is neutral, almost as cheap as Slavich, and also does not require a red safelight.

    Graded papers may be used successfully with VC enlargers. Just use the all white light, "hard", or blue light settings.
     
  22. Mark Fisher

    Mark Fisher Subscriber

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    Gold toned, Ilford MGWT can be amazingly cold. If you like grainy and graphic (sounds like you may), try Slavich Unibrom lithed in Rollei or Moersch then gold toned. It is gritty and cold. This isn't a great image, but you can see what I mean.
     
  23. VaryaV

    VaryaV Member

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    Very nice Mark. I do love grainy and I usually go super grainy but not with this project but I do like the colour you obtained.

    Hey Roger- not sure you read my previous posts or not, but the Ilford Galerie #2, #3 are my standard papers, and I do use Slavich often too, both toned in Selenium. I love the look but it's not what I am looking for with the project but yes, the Galerie is gorgeous, gorgeous paper.

    All these comments are extremely valuable as I know I will use them from time to time on other projects. :smile:
     
  24. Roger Cole

    Roger Cole Member

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    Read some of it, missed those. Sorry for the oversight.

    Try some MCC 110 and LPD. At worst if it isn't suitable for what you want now you'll have some really good VC paper and some very long lasting developer, so I doubt it would be a waste.
     
  25. kevs

    kevs Member

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    Sorry Roger, I meant to say Ilford Multigrade IV FB; the RC version doesn't change colour in selenium IIRC - not many RC papers do. Kentmere Bromide is an FB paper btw. I hope the OP didn't misunderstand me.

    Cheers,
    kevs.
     
  26. Roger Cole

    Roger Cole Member

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    Most RC papers DO change color in selenium though sometimes more slowly and subtly. I have two on MGIV RC hanging on my wall that are toned in KRST 1+19 with noticeable cooling and increase in Dmax.