Super Graphic or Super Speed Graphic? And which wide angle lens for it?

Discussion in 'Large Format Cameras and Accessories' started by dmtry, Apr 24, 2013.

  1. dmtry

    dmtry Member

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    Hello there!
    In previous tread was mentioned Graflex Super Graphic.
    Really like the camera portability, hand held possibilities and price!
    So now choosing which model to buy and which wide lenses will fit this camera well?
    Is 90 mm good option for this camera? And which one? (May be you have a kit for sale?)
    Thanks a lot!
     
  2. Dan Fromm

    Dan Fromm Member

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    Visit www.graflex.org and read the FAQs before you spend an Hryvna.

    The Super Speed Graphic is a Super Graphic delivered with a "normal" lens (Graflex Optar made by Rodenstock) in a Graflex 1000 shutter (top speed 1/1000). Otherwise the two are identical.

    If you want to use short lenses on a Graphic you want a Pacemaker Graphic, Crown or Century. You don't want a Super Graphic. This because short lenses make infinity with the front standard on the inner bed rails, not on the outer bed rails (on the camera's front door, the focusing knob moves them). Pacemaker Graphics' inner and outer bed rails are linked, so turning the focusing knob moves both. The Super Graphic's inner and outer bed rails are not linked, so focusing a short lens on a Super Graphic is quite fiddly. Unlock the front standard, slide the front standard, relock it.

    The key dimension that matters for using short lenses is the minimum flange-to-film distance: 4x5 Crown Graphic, 52.4 mm; 4x5 Pacemaker Speed Graphic, 66.7 mm. Data from Graphic Graflex Photography, 10th edition. For the Super, see http://www.bnphoto.org/bnphoto/LFN/CamProf_SuperGraphic.htm
     
  3. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    I use a 90mm f5.6 Super Angulon with my Super Graphic, or sometines a plain 90mm f6.8 Angulon, no problems with either. Most of of the 90mm lenses will be OK.

    Ian
     
  4. dmtry

    dmtry Member

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    As I understand Super Speed has a focal plane shutter, which is allow to use old lenses without shutter.
     
  5. BrianShaw

    BrianShaw Member

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    Wrong understanding. It has a special leaf shutter that, when working, travels at a speed marked 1/1000 sec.
     
  6. BrianShaw

    BrianShaw Member

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    p.s. You really should take Dan's suggestion in post #2. It will help you have a more accurate and correct understanding.
     
  7. dmtry

    dmtry Member

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    Thanks for clearing. Was reading the site you guys mentioned. Now I have a dilemma:
    Super Graphic with front movements and 90 mm lenses
    or
    Crown Graphic with lightest weight and 65 mm lenses possibility and focal plane shutter.

    Please help to decide, never used large format before.

    Thanks again!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 26, 2013
  8. Cybertrash

    Cybertrash Member

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    What kind of photography do you want to do with it?
     
  9. dmtry

    dmtry Member

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    Live portraits and landscapes mostly.
     
  10. nicholai

    nicholai Member

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    So many options in these graflex cameras. Whats the minimum flange-to-film on the anni edt.? I was wondering about getting a WA lens, but now im in doubt.
     
  11. Dan Fromm

    Dan Fromm Member

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    Crown Graphics don't have a focal plane shutter. That's why they're shorter than Speed Graphics.

    Stop asking questions that you can answer yourself. Go to www.graflex.org and read the FAQs.
     
  12. Dan Fromm

    Dan Fromm Member

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    65.1 mm according to the bible, tenth edition.

    How wide do you want? And, relatively modern technology (Super Angulon, ... ) or ancient (Angulon, 4/4 double Gauss, ... )? You should be able to use a 65 SA on an Anny. 90, new or old, no problem.
     
  13. premortho

    premortho Member

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    I would like to remind everyone that Dmtry comes from the Ukraine, where English is not the first language. So, Dmtry, about Graflex's---Anniversary and earlier come as Speed Graphics with 2 shutters. One in the lens, and a focal plane shutter in the back. Pacemaker Graphics were made both as Speeds, with the two shutters, and as a Crown with just the front shutter. The next model was the Super Graphics and they do not have focal plane shutters. For your use, you have to decide if the ability to use Russian lenses that have no shutters is an advantage for you.
     
  14. dmtry

    dmtry Member

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    Thank you, Sir, for your support.
    But it's for sure my fault, should read graflex site more carefully.
    Now I know more about different Graflex cameras, and I think I need to buy Crown or Speed graphic. Still not decided what will fit my needs better - barrel lenses or lighter weight. Now searching about old large format lenses.
     
  15. BrianShaw

    BrianShaw Member

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    Here is a sincere suggestion: focus your thoughts and that will help focus your energies. What do you want to do with a large format camera? I've lost track of the conversation in that regard becuase I think that maybe you aren't exactly sure. There is nothing wrong with that. FIRST - read up on the differences. SECOND - assess youur needs/desires and keep it "honest", in terms of what the camera can do and what you want to do with the camera. THIRD - do some virtual shopping, like on ebay... for the camera that will best meet your needs.

    Perhaps the most versatile approach would be a Anniversary or Pacemaker that works decently, with an 135 Optar. That would be a nice set-up and would get you going. The weight difference between that and a Crown can be made up by doing a few push-ups. Then shoot with the camera AS IT IS INTENDED TO BE USED. If it doesn't meet your needs, then explore alternative lenses or anotehr camera solution.

    Right now you seem to be "ping-ponging" through the thought process. Settle down and do the homework -- the answer will come easier. Good luck!
     
  16. sangetsu

    sangetsu Member

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    There are two types of Supers, the Super Speed Graphic, and the simpler Super Graphic. The Super Graphic does not have the 1/1000th shutter found on the Super Speed. I have both types.

    My Super Graphic (made by Toyo in Japan) was originally fitted with a 90mm lens and cam. I like the metal construction of the Super cameras, and some people prefer the extra movements these cameras have compared to the other Graflex models. I found a Toyo adapter which allows me to use more common Linhof type lens boards on the Graflex front standard.

    The older Crown Graphic is also a nice camera, and it's wooden construction makes it a bit lighter, but I seldom use my old Crown, I simply like the Supers beter.
     
  17. dmtry

    dmtry Member

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    Searching the Super Graphic, thanks for clearing my thoughts about this.
     
  18. Alan Gales

    Alan Gales Member

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    I asked questions about the Super Speed Graphic on another forum and was told by several people that the fancy 1/1000th sec. shutter was problematic.
     
  19. dmtry

    dmtry Member

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    Thanks for advice. I doubt I need such fancy shutter, so searching for Super, not Super Speed.
     
  20. Alan Gales

    Alan Gales Member

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    I have seen Super Speeds for sale without a lens or with a different lens and shutter so don't count them out if condition is good and the price is right. Usually though, you are correct about the Super Graphic being the better deal.

    Good luck to you!