Super Graphic standard on Pacemaker

Discussion in 'Camera Building, Repairs & Modification' started by Ian Grant, Jan 30, 2012.

  1. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    Just wondered if anyone's done this before and if so how ?

    I asked in the past and was told there was no way the standard could fit the rails then discovered my spare Pacemaker standard that I'd bought to customise to give swing would fit my Super Graphic. However it doesn't work the other way around . . . . . . . . or it didn't/

    A few days ago I recieved some Super Graphic spare parts to finish restoring the camera inc a front standard, I'm left with enough to modify to fit the Pacemakers :D

    The good news is a Super Graphic standard will fit a Pacemaker and probably an Anniversary Graphic with some slight modification, and these are much easier than modifying a Pacemaker standard to get movements. All you need to do is grind away the underside of the base plate on the sandard untit it fits, this is the plate that slots into the rails.

    So I now have a fully functional Super Graphic front standard that fits my Pacemakers which will allow full movements. The dilemma is now whether to use the Super Graphic lens board frame (sits in the standard) which is missing the sliders (one already missing the other cannibalised to fix my Super Graphic) and fudge a bellows attachment or to modify the Super Graphic standar to take the existing lens board frame from a Pacemaker. If I use the Super Graphic parts I've no sliders to attach the lens so thats an issue as well.

    Any thoughts ?

    Ian
     
  2. BradS

    BradS Subscriber

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    Interesting. Although I've never tried it, I was under the impression that one could simply use the uprights from the super on the pacemaker. Is that the case? I've never found a decent super for sale at a reasonable price so, have not tried.

    I've also thought about having a machinist fab a slightly modified pacemaker upright. It easy to see that, in order to achieve a more useful front tilt range of motion on the pacemaker, one would only need to extend the circle at the base of the upright on the pacemaker front standard....again, I've no pressing (pardon the pun) need for front tilt on the crown graphic and so have not pursued this too far.
     
  3. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    Hi Brad, no unfortunately the uprights are slightly wider on the Super Graphic and the pivot point for tilt is fixed, the rise/fall is part of the lens panel holder, while the Pacemaker pivot point is also fixed the lens panel holder slides up & down the front standard, so too different. Really needs photos to illustrate the differances and when I've finally finished I'll write something about it all.

    I was constantly frustrated by the lack of movements on my Crown Graphic which I mainly used hand held and switching to a Super Graphic made a huge differance. It's not so much the front tilt rather the lack of movements when the cameras used in portrait mode. My main 5x4 camera is a Wista 45DX but it's not hand holdable so when out shooting in Turkey & Greece it was acase of either or in the back pack which isn't ideal.

    So the idea it to make a Pacemaker almost as versatile as the Super Graphic if possible without compromising the original camera, I don't need a rangefinder or optical viewfinder. I could end up making a new casing and adding a rotating back, so I'd need to make slightly larger bellows as well.

    Ian
     
  4. himself

    himself Member

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    But why, and you'll have to excuse my ignorance here, if you have a super speed would you want to turn your pacemaker into a super speed?

    anyway, would it be possible to just swap out the rails too, or is the problem something else?
    and as someone that neither owns nor ever owned either - I'm just thinking out loud
     
  5. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    Unfortunately bits don't swap :D

    The why, I spend time on two continents and LF gear is bulky & heavy and then there's flight weight restrictions (so I keep a set up in Turkey and another in the UK) plus I have a spare camera and parts. Plus it's a challenge :smile:

    Ian
     
  6. himself

    himself Member

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    are you sure?
    not even with lots and lots of gaffer tape?
    where's your Mcgyver spirit

    all very valid reason, but still poor form to be bragging about having 2 and wanting to make 1 even better...

    So, what exactly is the problem tho'. you say that you need to fit one lens board holder or the other - the one having one slider and the other having no slider and on top of this the bellows fitting?

    Surely it has to be easier to modify the bellows connection and run the super board holder... how do they connect to each other? any chance of having some shots uploaded. it's very hard to imagine all this :wink:
     
  7. BradS

    BradS Subscriber

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    Right. So I missed this part on my first reading. It has been a while since I took one apart, and I do not have the parts here with me at present but from memory, the Pacemaker front end has two major pieces that ride in the uprights of the front standard. First off, I'd be very strongly inclined to stay with the pacemaker parts here. The black part that attaches to the bellows especially. The brushed aluminum part that kind engulfs the black part...well,I'd be very inclined to keep that too....

    (takes a moment to look at some photos of Super Graphics on eBay)

    Ok...so, I see your dilema...the super uprights do not have the slots for front rise...or at least they're not obvious from the photos...and the pacemaker has studs sticking out that want to ride up and down in those slots...is that it? Does the super even have front rise?

    I think I would find a way to fasten the pacemaker bellows attachment and lens board "housing" to the uprights of the super's front standard...


    Or maybe chuck the whole thing and work out a way to hand-hold the wista? :smile:
     
  8. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    Brad has spotted the problems. My spare Super Graphic front standard has issues because the frame is missing the sliders to hold the lens board inplace so ideally I'd prefer to use the existing Pacemaker frame because that would allow me to use the modified standard on a different Pacemaker as well if I wanted.

    So the plan is to make new aluminium guides for the Super Graphic standard or modify the existing ones by using some aluminium srtips. Photos later today.

    Ian
     
  9. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    Here's the photos, just some quick snaps :D

    Both standards on the focus track, the Super Graphic with swing and shift and the modification that was done.

    Ian
     

    Attached Files:

  10. himself

    himself Member

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    to do it that way I think that's the only option you'd have. But to be honest I'd be more inclined of finding a way of fitting the bellows straight on to the super standard.

    And looking at the pictures, what sort of difference in width is there between the 2? because it seems like the pacemaker board will be a lot narrower than the super's sliders.

    One question too, is there any reason you can't just take the rotating base plate off the super and mount it to the pacmaker's with some sort of adapter for any size difference there may be?
     
  11. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    Unfortunately the way Pacemaker Crown Graphics are constructed there's a plate in the back which is rectangular and would prevent a rotating back being used in portrait mode as it obstructs the light path, with a Pacemaker Speed Graphic this is worse as it's deeper into the body to allow for the shutter. Also I'm using parts left over from my main restoration as I bought the Super Graphic cheap just over a year ago knowing it had problems, so while I have the rotating back spare the actual focus screen holder etc is now on the restored camera

    The Pacemaker and Super Graphic lens boards are the same (except for 4 raised bumps) but the Pacemake frame is about 1/4 maybe 3/8 narrower.

    With either option I need to make parts, getting Super Graphic spares is hard so I'd need to make two sliders to use the lens panel, drilling it to attach the bellows would be fairly easy make the fit light tight a bit harder. If I could make some sliders then this would be the simplest.

    Needs some thought :D

    Ian
     
  12. himself

    himself Member

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    can you just clarify something for me...

    the pacemaker rises by loosening a nut that is attached to the lens board frame that then runs up and down in a slit made in the standard frame, while the super rises by sliding the frame up in the standard and then a nut just tightens against the frame (or does it run on teeth or something)?
     
  13. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    The Super Graphic frame uses a T shaped piece the top part (of the T) is a small panelmoves in a slit in the standard frame and the upright (part of the T is threaded and is the locking part.

    Ian
     
  14. himself

    himself Member

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    could you then modify the the way the slider works on the super standard - by turning it into a simpler locking mechanism and then remove the locking screw on the pacemakers board frame (which I guess would need widening anyway)?

    oh, would you be able to replace the screw on the pacemaker, widen the board's frame a little, with anything I suppose. and cut a small section of the speed's standard frame out so that you have a "U" shaped standard arm like I have on my home made camera? you'd get extra tilt then also

    http://www.apug.org/forums/attachme...ur-home-built-cams-here-please-camera.jpg.att
     
  15. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    This is one of the options, shorten the existing slider rails on the Super Graphic and fix the locking screws in place then add new slider rails for the rise/fall.

    However it seems more logical to make new fittings / slider knobs to lock the lens board into the frame and bolt the existing Crown/Speed Graphic bellows to the Super Graphic parts.

    I like the psychodelic cameras, very 60's :D

    Ian
     
  16. himself

    himself Member

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    I don't know, fitting the bellows to the super board seems like a lot of trouble... trying to get it light tight and all.

    thanks, but it's a little different now - new lens and better sliding rail
     
  17. graywolf

    graywolf Member

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    I do not know exactly what you need, Ian.

    For the rotating back the Super has a square bellows, the Pacemaker has a smaller rectangular bellows so you can not fit a rotating, or probably even a reversing back.

    The Pacemaker only has back tilt on the lens, but can be modified to have forward tilt, or you can shoot with the camera upside down as I sometimes do and the back tilt becomes a forward tilt.

    The Pacemaker has no swing, but I have seen cameras that have been modified to have that.

    Front vertical shift is limited to rise but you can drop the bed and get drop, or you can again mount the camera upside down for drop.

    So basically the Pacemaker either has work arounds or can be mod'ed to provide all the front movements.

    When the use of the Graphic as press cameras started to wain Graflex came out with the Super which was intended to be more of a field camera. When Singer dumped Graflex, Toyo bought the rights to the super and produced it for another 10-15 years in Japan. Actually, Toyo may have been producing it all along for Graflex, I am not sure about that.

    What I am trying to say is that putting a Super front end on a Pacemaker does not make a lot of sense when some light machining or even filing will get you the same results.