super syrup kodak d-52

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by el wacho, May 17, 2008.

  1. el wacho

    el wacho Member

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    i want to mix a syrup version of d-52 ( kodak warm tone developer ) in the order of 10x - instead of the original recipe to be used at 1:1, i want to mix it for 1:9 usage ( thereabouts ).


    - does anyone foresee any problems? saturation? longetivity issues? etc


    thanks...
     
  2. gainer

    gainer Subscriber

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    I doubt you could do it. First try dissolving 10X as much sulfite.
     
  3. FilmIs4Ever

    FilmIs4Ever Member

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    Why would you even consider over concentrating such a high-contrast, fast-acting developer in the first place? I doubt you can get much more activity out of it anyway.

    Do you want a syrup, as in something you can actually use to develop, or a concentrate?

    Unless you have a chem lab and specialized equipment, you'll have to buy such things from photography companies. If you don't like dealing with powders, doesn't Ilford make a concentrate for paper development?

    Kodak makes HC-110 and XTOL in liquid concentrates, but I don't think they make any paper developers as concentrates.
     
  4. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    You could certainly make up a solution to dilute 1+9 because it's not a 10x strength concentrate that's require.

    I have a spreadsheet to do the calculations. I'll post the requirements in a few minutes. I make up a concentrate of ID-78 which is an Ilford Warm-tone PQ equivalent and that dissolves easily, almost the same amount of Sulphite but a bit less carbonate.

    Ian
     
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  5. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    It's so easy it doesn't need a spread sheet. Formulae is for 1+1 therefore the working solution contains half the amounts per litre. So Just x5 gives you the concentrate for 1+9 dilution

    So concentrate:

    Metol 7.5g
    SodiumSulphite (anhyd) 112.5g
    Hydroquinone 31.5g
    Sodium Carbonate (anhyd) 75g
    Potassium Bromide 7.5g
    Water to 1 litre

    It will easily dissolve, a PQ version has slightly better keeping properties. Which was why the Agfa Neutol powder was an MQ dev and the Liquid PQ.

    Ian
     
  6. jim appleyard

    jim appleyard Member

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    X-tol is made in liquid form?
     
  7. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    Jim I think the poster hadn't grasped what El Wacho was after. Why was he going on about film developers when the post was about Warm Tone Print developer/

    Ilfords DDX equivalent of Xtol is in liquid form.

    Ian
     
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  8. rmolson

    rmolson Member

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    If I follow the inquiry I think he wants to make a syrup form of a paper developer that would keep in concentrated form like HC110 Then it could be used as needed by diluting it. which would be nice if he only uses a warm tone developer occassionally.
     
  9. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    That's it in one, and it's relatively easy to do with many formulae. The reason most MQ devs are sold as powders is they have a relatively short shelf life as liquids even un-opened. The PQ equivalents have a very significantly longer shelf life as liquids unopened, and slightly better once opened.

    Ian
     
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  10. el wacho

    el wacho Member

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    hello all,


    thanks to all.


    Ian is spot on. i am currently using the PQ version and was just curious whether the MQ equivalent would produce a warmer tone, having noticed that metol produced warmer tones in some negs ( perceptol in particular, combined with the lack of sod.carbonate) than PQ film developers. the convenience of mixing a higher concentrate ( maybe the term "super syrup" was too dramatic?! ) was what prompted the question.

    am i thinking the right way about it?
     
  11. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    You might look at a similar current thread about Benzotriazole and Potassium Bromide as restrainers, leave out any Benzotriazole and the PQ version is warmer..

    It's also worth bearing in mind that Agfa used to sell Neutol WA as a powder and as a liquid. The powdered version was an MQ developer, while the liquid version is PQ based and gives slightly warmer results.

    The reason your Perceptol negatives look warmer toned is they are finer grained, the whole basis of warm-tone development is to achieve finer grain in the prints.

    Interestingly Perceptol uses NaCl as a silver solvent, Ilford published a Technical data sheet P10 in 1965 discussing Fine Grain film developers, and in this suggest modifying ID-11 or ID-2 for even finer grain by adding Ammonium Chloride to 40g/litre working solution.

    So it would be interesting to try a warm-tone developer formula using Ammonium or Sodium Chloride in place of the KBr. Remember you need very much higher levels of the chloride.

    Ian
     
  12. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Liquidol from the Formulary, developed (pun) by myself and Bill Troop is essentially a "syrup" of Dektol, but with longer life and capacity. It is used 1:9.

    PE
     
  13. dancqu

    dancqu Member

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    On a ratio basis D52 differs from D72 only
    in the amount of carbonate. Essentially it
    is a low carbonate D72.

    Compare it with Ansco 120; no hydroquinone.
    Add Beer's 7 to your list of concentrates and twixt
    the two you've a contrast control blend similar to
    A. Adams two part Ansco 130. Dan