T grain emulsions

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by cliveh, Dec 14, 2013.

  1. cliveh

    cliveh Subscriber

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    I do not like these, don't consider them natural, they lack integrity and when a manufacturer attempts to put all the grains in the same direction, I believe they don't always succeed. Are others for or against?
     
  2. Peter Schrager

    Peter Schrager Subscriber

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    horses for courses...only a tool to make a photograph...
    have a nice day
    peter
     
  3. Roger Cole

    Roger Cole Subscriber

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    Neither "for" nor "against." The do seem subjectively to give a slightly different look that's hard to quantify or even explain. Still, I doubt most people could pick out prints made on old versus new tech emulsions if that was the only difference and they were otherwise as closely matched as possible. They have very straight line responses for the most part so tolerate exposure errors, particularly overexposure, well, but are sensitive to development changes. So I use TMY in 4x5 where I can vary development individually (and also where I carefully expose using a spot meter) but use conventional films for the most part, except for some Acros which seems neither one nor the other, in 120 and 35mm.
     
  4. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

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    Just don't like them. I am not so rabidly opposed to grain as some on APUG are. Besides they are a bit fussy to process.
     
  5. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    I used Tmax 100 & 400 from their release in the UK until they became almost unavailable in some parts of the world. No issues I read John Sexton's superb articles in Darkroom Techniques did my own Zone System tests with similar results and just kept shooting.

    Films are as good as their users and poor workmen blame their tools. There aren't nay poor films available these days they are all cpable of excellent results once you tame them.

    Ian
     
  6. Konical

    Konical Subscriber

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    Good Evening, Clive,

    I agree with Ian's comment above. I occasionally use other films, but T-100 is my favorite (I don't care for graininess), with T-400 when there's less light. Contrast control with T-100 is easy, one major reason I favor the film in sizes ranging from 35mm to 4 × 5.

    Konical
     
  7. David Allen

    David Allen Member

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    I have used, for the past 12 years, Delta 400 with a personal EI 200 developed in various two-bath developers with Thornton's being the only one for 8 years. For my work it is perfect.

    This type of thread will generate loads of responses along the lines of mine and they will all be pointless because what I want to achieve in my prints will be different to someone else's.

    The correct response is . . . If you want to produce images like mine then a 'modern' (lets face it this is now REALLY old technology) film is the best.

    If you want images like Andersen or Moriyama then use Tri-X pushed and if you want images like Friedlander use Plus-X and if you want images that suit you, then use what suits your work.

    One of the images on my website was shot using Tri-X developed in HC110 at dilution B. If you can identify it, I will send you a print in a window matt which is worth 420€ (gallery price).

    Bests,

    David
    www.dsallen.de
     
  8. Jerevan

    Jerevan Subscriber

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    I've used Tmax with Rodinal, Tmax RS and Xtol - all fine. That it had to be processed with care, meant that I did it by the textbook, reading up and being very careful with temperatures. At the time, I thought the Tmax/Rodinal combination was a dismal failure. Now, looking back I am not so sure - I guess tastes change over time. :smile:
     
  9. cliveh

    cliveh Subscriber

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    David, I would have a go, but only the first image opens on gallery 2 of your website for me.
     
  10. Michael R 1974

    Michael R 1974 Subscriber

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    Natural? Integrity? Grains in the same direction?? When you post things like this are you actually serious?
     
  11. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

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    It doesn't matter. Not even a bit.

    Either you're good at making photographs, or you're not. The film? Not worth thinking too much about.
     
  12. Truzi

    Truzi Subscriber

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    I don't know that it matters a great deal to me. I do prefer "conventional" emulsions better than t-grain, but I do like both. With experience, I'm sure I will learn which to use depending on what I am looking for in the final print, but I will still use both - just in a more deliberate manner.
     
  13. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser

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    +1
     
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  15. cliveh

    cliveh Subscriber

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    Oh yes.
     
  16. eddie

    eddie Subscriber

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    True... I've found that the times I've not liked the results of new (to me) materials, it's always because of a lack of effort, and work, on my part. When I don't put in the time, I don't get the results.
     
  17. Jerevan

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    It just reminds me of the Miyamoto Musashi saying: “Do nothing that is of no use”. :smile:
     
  18. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    I use two black and white films - Plus-X and TMY-2.

    When my Plus-X is gone, I'll transition to T-Max.

    Both Plus-X and TMY-2 appeal to my sensibilities. I will have to work a bit, but I'm sure T-Max will be fine too.
     
  19. eddie

    eddie Subscriber

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    If I may amend this statement just a bit, Thomas... The film is not worth thinking too much about "once you get to know it". It's at this point that you can concentrate on making good photographs.
     
  20. jp498

    jp498 Member

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    There is no film that is natural or has integrity. Closest thing might be moss on the north side of a tree.
     
  21. cliveh

    cliveh Subscriber

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    I suppose a good analogy would be is it OK to have a tooth filling or a face lift?
     
  22. Alan W

    Alan W Subscriber

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    As Ian said John Sextons opinions/advice on using Tmax films is very well worth reading.I'm mainly a tri x user myself but use tmax 100 or 400 in tmax RS Developer and you might have a different opinion.
     
  23. Kawaiithulhu

    Kawaiithulhu Member

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    I've seen work that puts my puny efforts to shame on all those films :smile: Truth of it is that for me a great image could be made by woodpecker and have grain like lava rocks, as long as it's a great image.

    Screen-shot-2012-02-03-at-12.35.21-PM.png
     
  24. lxdude

    lxdude Member

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    I would answer, if I knew what any of that meant.

    I mean, the "natural" part I understand, I guess, but the rest... WTH?
     
  25. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

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    It's all a matter of personal opinion. There is no obligation to justify your preference. I don't like kale either, never have. I don't like the look of these films whether I process them or I am looking at someone else's photography. It would be a very dull world if we all agreed.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 14, 2013
  26. Bill Burk

    Bill Burk Subscriber

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    I love them both. To me, they are as natural as moss (traditional grain) and granite (tabular grain).