Technidol Liquid Developer

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Konical, Nov 23, 2003.

  1. Konical

    Konical Subscriber

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    With the reduction in Kodak's product line which has lately been decried in other postings, it occurs to me that one possible future victim might be Technidol developer, since it's not exactly a mass-market item. In spite of its expense, it really comes in handy occasionally with film shot in extreme contrast situations.
    I need comment from some of the APUGers who have a lot more expertise in chemistry than I have. (Never had a chemistry course, even in high school; I must lead a charmed life, because I also never had to take a statistics course in grad school!)
    My specific question--Would refrigerating the Technidol Liquid in its original packaging extend its life? Incidentally, the stuff seems to keep rather well anyway; a few months ago, I used some which was purchased in 1997 and noticed no ill effects. I also assume that freezing would NOT be a good idea. Is that assumption correct?

    Konical
     
  2. Aggie

    Aggie Member

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  3. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    The Technidol seems to be very long-lasting indeed. It is possible that it will gradually lose its efficiency, so that higher concentrations or longer times will be necessary after some years or decades.

    As long as raw chemicals are available, I feel confident that I can make any developer (type) I might need. Powder generally lasts longer than solutions, and can even be refrigerated (which is a bad idea with liquid concentrates).
     
  4. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I don't see Technidol disappearing unless Tech Pan does, and I think there's probably non-pictorial demand for Tech Pan that keeps it afloat (scientific use, archiving, and such). Even if it did, there are formulas like POTA, SPUR and such that could be used with high contrast films to similar effect.
     
  5. MikeK

    MikeK Member

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    I recently used both the powder and liquid versions of Technidol that I purchased around 1988. The results were just fine, and they were stored in a cupboard in the house.

    As David mentions in his post I think the developer would only go away if the yellow gods end of lifed Technical Pan.

    If you get the chance try Tech Pan developed for 25 minutes in Rodinal diluted 1:200. You may not want to worry about Technidol going away.

    - Mike
     
  6. glbeas

    glbeas Member

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    I've used Konica 750 Infrared in Technidol and the results were outstanding compared to what you normally see. My only gripe about the stuff is the expense and the tiny packages it comes in. You have to make two of the little packages up for a single roll of 120. I've never seen Technidol in any larger sizes in liquid form.
     
  7. Annemarieke

    Annemarieke Member

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    The version I have of Technidol is sold in tiny bottles here in Holland. I think one little bottle makes 600 ml. I guess that as long as you keep the little bottles tightly sealed, they will keep for a very long time.

    I tried Rodinal once for Technical Pan film, but I did not like it as much as Technidol. As 'Konical' said, it is expensive but certainly well worth the cost.

    Hopefully Kodak will keep making Tech Pan film, and Technidol, because it is a lovely film for details in nature.
     
  8. Konical

    Konical Subscriber

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    Thanks to all for the information and opinions.
    Aggie--Technidol is used one-shot, so I was only concerned about prolonging the life of the original concentrate.
    Ole--Thanks for the advice against refrigerating. A later post suggests that it probably isn't necessary anyway.
    David/Mike--I didn't mention in the original message that I wasn't thinking primarily of Tech Pan; I ordinarily use Technidol Liquid for night shots on T-Max 100. Its a perfect combination: a film with favorable reciprocity characteristics and a soft-working developer. I have tried highly dilute solutions of HC-110 and Rodinal for similar exposures, but the results were definitely inferior to those obtained with Technidol.
    glbeas/Annemarieke--Years ago, Technidol Liquid was sold here in small bottles, but over here each bottle made 16 oz. (473 ml). I still have a couple of the empty bottles. Currently, Technidol Liquid is sold in a box of six individual foil packets, each one for making 8 oz. of solution. Each box of six costs around $12.00. That certainly makes it a pain in the pocketbook for 120, but I manage 4 sheets of 4 x 5 (in a rotary drum) with only 8 oz.
     
  9. Annemarieke

    Annemarieke Member

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    Found the following on the Kodak website:

    KODAK PROFESSIONAL TECHNIDOL Liquid Developer

    For producing pictorial negatives with KODAK PROFESSIONAL Technical Pan Films. Produces excellent uniformity with all KODAK PROFESSIONAL Technical Pan Films.

    Exceptionally fine grain, high degree of sharpness, enhanced edge effects
    Package/Availability:

    Each packet of liquid makes 8 oz of solution (1/2 pint)
    Typical Dilution:

    For Roll Film—Mixing from Foil Packets; Pour contents into 8 fl oz container. Add water at 68-86°F (20-30°C) to make 8 fl oz (237 mL). Stir until completely mixed. Note: If using plastic processing tanks, diluting 2 foil packets to make 20 oz (591 mL) is possible.


    For Sheet Film—Mixing from Foil Packets; Pour contents of two packets of concentrate into one quart container. Add water at 68-77°F (20-25°C) to make 1 quart (946 mL). Stir until completely mixed. This dilution is one-half the working strength used for roll films.
    For use in:

    small or large tanks
    tray (for sheet films)
    Keeping Properties:

    1 week in a full stoppered bottle
    Useful Capacity:

    For roll film, 1/2 pint of solution will process 1 roll of 135-36 (developer reuse for additional rolls may apply)
    For roll film, 1 pint of solution will process 2 rolls of 135-36 or 1-120 (developer reuse for additional rolls may apply)
    For sheet film, 1 quart will process 12-4x5 (Do not reuse this solution for a second batch even if the first batch consisted of fewer than 12 sheets)
     
  10. Aggie

    Aggie Member

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  11. Konical

    Konical Subscriber

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    Aggie--We're on the same page then. The concentrate is, however, in small foil packets which must be cut open immediately before use. There's no practical way to use the old marble trick as with a bottle of HC-110 or T-Max Developer. I was simply wondering if refrigerating the sealed packets would prolong their life so that a supply could be cached in case Kodak drops the product. From the answers posted, I'm assuming that would either be a bad idea or would be of no particular value.
    jdef--Is TD-3 a liquid or a powder? How about cost? Have you tried it with anything besides Tech Pan?
    Again, thanks to all who took the time to respond.

    Konical
     
  12. Konical

    Konical Subscriber

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    Thanks--I'll look into it. If it's cheaper than Technidol, it will be worth trying.

    Konical
     
  13. Black Dog

    Black Dog Member

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    Rodinal is probably the most economical dev on the market-try it at 1+200/300 for TP. Works v well for Maco ORT 25 at 1+200 for 10 mins (ISO 12).
     
  14. roy

    roy Member

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  15. MikeK

    MikeK Member

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    Not only is it a very economical developer, I have found the higher the dilution the smaller the grain! I developed some Tri-X in Rodinal 1:100 and was expecting golf-ball sized grain. But suprise, he grain was not noticable and the prints had a great tonal range and were easy to print.

    Later this evening I will scan the print I made in Locke (CA) and post it to the techical gallery

    - Mike
     
  16. Ed Sukach

    Ed Sukach Member

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    As I understand it, grain size does not increase with Rodinal... It stays the same. Rodinal works very cleanly, and it leaves the grain sharply defined, in place of "smearing" the edges to give the illusion of fine grain.
    It is a high acutance developer, producing sharply defined edges, without grain "clumping".

    I don't consider "grain" to be any sort of an "evil" anyway. Robert Farber made some wonderful images using grain as an aesthetic "tool" - Agfachrome 1000 reversal film pushed as many as two stops in developing.
     
  17. MikeK

    MikeK Member

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    Ed:

    I have seen really big grain using Rodinal and certain high speed films. Rodinal 1:25 and Kodak Recording film was like golf balls.

    However, I am convinced that using a very high dilution you can actually see a finer grain when using Rodinal. I have posted a rather mundane picture in the Technical Gallery (Washing Line). Film was Tri-X and developed in Rodinal 1:100.


    - Mike
     
  18. Black Dog

    Black Dog Member

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    BTW. Maco (Docufine) and Tetenal (Neofin Doku) both make similar devs to Technidol. Also you can use HC110 (dil F) or Acutol at 1+20.