Telerium toner

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Claire Senft, Apr 6, 2005.

  1. Claire Senft

    Claire Senft Member

    Messages:
    3,242
    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Location:
    Milwaukee, W
    Shooter:
    35mm
    In Phototechniques magazine some time back Dr. Robert Chapman was discussing the metal toners. He mentioned telerium toner which during toning forms silver teleride..hope I did not misspell that too badly. At that time I had never heard of telerium being used as a toner.

    Does anyone here tone in telerium? What kind of print color do you get?

    Want to share a formula? how expensive is it? Toxicity?
     
  2. L Gebhardt

    L Gebhardt Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,769
    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2003
    Location:
    NH
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    I don't have the magazine, but it sounds as if you are refering to selenium toner which forms silver-selenide. If so there are a ton of threads on selenium. If not, I am also in the dark on Telerium toner.

    The other option is tellurium, but I hadn't heard of that until I did a google search.
     
  3. Claire Senft

    Claire Senft Member

    Messages:
    3,242
    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Location:
    Milwaukee, W
    Shooter:
    35mm
    sorry.

    I have committed another unauthorized creative spelling usage. Tellerium is what I am after.
     
  4. fparnold

    fparnold Member

    Messages:
    264
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2002
    Location:
    Binghamton,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    In principle, the chemistry should be the same, though being heavier than selenium, the color will be somewhat different. In practice, Tellurium does what it wants, and often makes structures that Se/S won't.

    Beyond the usual "be careful out there" warnings, do be aware that like most chalcogens, there is a smell associated with organotelluride compounds, so if you ingest any, you'll have a particularly bad case of garlic breath.

    If you try some, post a picture so that we can compare the color with selenium.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 6, 2005
  5. George Papantoniou

    George Papantoniou Member

    Messages:
    992
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Location:
    Athens
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    You could try asking Wolfgang Moersch, who will surely know everything about the Tellurium toner. He actually knows everything about photographic chemistry there is to know (I think). And he's a really nice, helping guy. Deutsch is the preffered language to write, but I think he'll manage English too.

    wolfgang@moersch-photochemie.com
     
  6. titrisol

    titrisol Member

    Messages:
    1,671
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    Rotterdam
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Tellerium? never heard of that element... maybe it is Tellurium?
    Not very friendly, but it may work, since it belongs to the same family as Selenium
    Silver Telluride is known as Hessite, gray to silver gray mineral, so I dunno what color it'll give to the images..

    I think buying it would be even moe expensive than selenium and safety wise is a bit less dangrous.
    Technical data pdf here

    It is insoluble in water but soluble in alkali solutions, so is alkalinity iis a problem an oxide or some sort of salt should be used to make a toner.


    It is used in toners for photocopiers/laser printers... which sound similar but it's not the same :wink:
     
  7. Claire Senft

    Claire Senft Member

    Messages:
    3,242
    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Location:
    Milwaukee, W
    Shooter:
    35mm
    thank you all

    I have sent an email to Herr Moersch. Thank you all for the help and interest. Depending onwhat he has to tell me, I may make some toner. Should that happen I will post some information here.
     
  8. rbarker

    rbarker Member

    Messages:
    2,222
    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2004
    Location:
    Rio Rancho,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Silver Telleride? Isn't that the "low-rent" district of that Colorado ski resort? :D

    Seriously, Claire, I'd never heard of the toner either, so any additional information you come up with will be interesting.
     
  9. arigram

    arigram Member

    Messages:
    5,474
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2004
    Location:
    Crete, Greec
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Damn and I read "Dellirium toner"...
    That would have been quite interesting!
     
  10. titrisol

    titrisol Member

    Messages:
    1,671
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    Rotterdam
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Sources for Tellurium:

    Sigma-Aldrich part #226418 about $70 for 100g
    ESPI metals
     
  11. George Papantoniou

    George Papantoniou Member

    Messages:
    992
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Location:
    Athens
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Aristoteles, I think you've got some kind of "Delirium toner" in Creta, it's used a bit differently than the other toners (you actually have to drink it) but the effect is really interesting. It's called Raki, or Tsikoudia. I don't know whether there is a recipe in the Darkroom Cookbook, though.
     
  12. Claire Senft

    Claire Senft Member

    Messages:
    3,242
    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Location:
    Milwaukee, W
    Shooter:
    35mm
    I have heard from Herr Moersch. George you are correct. He is a very nice man. He informed me that his past efforts to tone in tellerium with silver/gelatin fiber based paper have been unsucessful. He believes in might work...he not tried it..with some of the alternate processes.
     
  13. Sino

    Sino Member

    Messages:
    166
    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2005
    Location:
    Chania, Gree
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Way off topic, George and Aristo, but i'm interested in "delerium toner" too. I've had some combinations before, too. Raki doesn't mix well with other "psychic toners", that's for sure... Care must be taken! =)

    Claire, this "tellerium toner" sounds interesting. Hope you'll make it and i'll be waiting on my screen.


    -Sino.
     
  14. George Papantoniou

    George Papantoniou Member

    Messages:
    992
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Location:
    Athens
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Claire, if Wolfgang Moersch hasn't succeeded to tone in Tellerium, I'm pretty sure noone will (unless he hasn't really tried, which I doubt). The guy is just a genius, in my humble opinion. I've been at his lab outside Koeln, seen lots of his work and trust me, I know what I'm talking about... As for his brews (print developers, mostly), they are brilliant (I'm not trying to advertise his products, I have no reason to do that...). All the lith printing I have been doing is with his Lith developer and you can't imagine how easy it goes...
     
  15. titrisol

    titrisol Member

    Messages:
    1,671
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    Rotterdam
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Tellurium toner souldn't give much of a change in color.
    Silver telluride is gray

     
  16. Claire Senft

    Claire Senft Member

    Messages:
    3,242
    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Location:
    Milwaukee, W
    Shooter:
    35mm
    George, I am trusting your word. No reason to doubt it have I. I did send to Photo techniques, attention Dr. Robert Chanpman, a question regarding a recipe for making a tellerium toner and the process for its use. My reason for doing so was not to doubt Herr Moersch. Rather, my reson was that he was the one that had issued such an opinion in the first place.

    I do not know, of course, if Dr. Chapman, will choose to answer the question. However, I do look forward to either getting an "I was wrong.", "Here is how it is done". or "This is what you might try in compounding a toner based on tellerium".

    My guess would be for third option: "This is what you might try in compounding a tellerium toner".

    We shall see.

    Thankful am I to those of you that offered help. I do not need a delerium toner as I have sufficients fights of fancy that are already dashed upon the cruel rocks of reality. Such a toner would only compound my confusion and be of unnecssary expense.