Tetenal developers

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by modafoto, Jan 18, 2005.

  1. modafoto

    modafoto Subscriber

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    Hi

    I have looked a bit at Tetenal developers at my local pusher and would like to have some words on them.
    The developers I have in mind are:

    • Ultrafin
    • Ultrafin Plus
    • Emofin
    • Neofin
    • Neofin Doku

    Greetings Morten
     
  2. PieterB

    PieterB Member

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    TIP: Don't use old (read: out of date) neofin blue (or red). But I think it's truly a very thin grain dev. A bit expensive, but a good dev for low-speed films.
     
  3. Amund

    Amund Member

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    I have a bottle of Ultrafin that doesn`t get much use. It`s like a not so sharp version of Rodinal. Not very fine grain at all...
     
  4. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Neofin is "the original 35mm developer", formulated by Willi Beutler for ADOX KB14, KB17, and KB20 which are essentially the same as todays EFKE KB25, KB50 and KB100. It gives distinct grain, and a very nice gradation to these films. The gradation is of course equally good with the R- and PL- versions of the same films.

    Grain is as I said distinct, without being overly coarse.

    If you want to try one developer other than Rodinal, I recommend Neofin. Results will be similar, yet different.

    I have used Neofin that was out of date by at least five years, possibly ten. It came in plastic vials, today it comes in small glass bottles. It still worked, although significantly slower.

    Beutler used Neofin Blau for both slow and fast films, but made the Rot version for fast films and impatient people. He still recommended only Blau. So when Tetenal have now stopped making the red, they are at last complying with Beutlers instructions!
     
  5. PieterB

    PieterB Member

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    I've thrown away 5 plastic tubes of red and 4 of blue after my testing. I've developped +20% but with no good results at all. The neofin had a very dark brown color and my fixing was also polluted after development. The negatives were only reproducable digital [1] (very thin) So I don't recommend using old dev on your precious negatives!

    [1] http://www.apug.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=5098&password=&sort=1&cat=500&page=1
     
  6. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I agree. I developed by inspection, and had a second (different) developer ready.
     
  7. PieterB

    PieterB Member

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    With KB, you could destroy 36 frames - and that happened...
    If you work with LF, like you do (?), that's not an issue indeed :wink:
     
  8. modafoto

    modafoto Subscriber

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    Hmmmm....I stick to what I know...Rodinal. It will never let you down :tongue:
     
  9. titrisol

    titrisol Member

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    Is Neofin B a low contrast developer?
     
  10. PieterB

    PieterB Member

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    I suggest using d76 and/or xtol for negatives rated over 150 :wink:
    But for apx 100, I believe in the church of rodinal....
     
  11. JohnArs

    JohnArs Subscriber

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    I worked for years with Ultrafin plus in the past with Tmax it was a very good combo, till Xtol was anounced and got the first place in the german labor mag test!
    Since then I soup all films in Xtol and look never back!
     
  12. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Contrast is a question of time and agitation more than the developer.

    Neofin is a non-solvent developer, which can give any contrast you want (within reason). There are better compensating developers, just as there are better choises for stand development, and better high-contrast developers.
     
  13. Fotohuis

    Fotohuis Member

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    Neofin blue is an old recept and almost simmular as the AM20 (Amaloco Photochemicals, the Netherlands) from 1936.
    The further development of AM20 is AM50, based on brenzcatechin and hydrochinon. This type of developer does not give a staining effect.

    Both mentioned types of developers are working with a high dillution and are delivered in small ampuls (20ml). The concentrated developer in plastic ampuls (AM20-AM50) can be stocked for about 3 years.
    AM50 is delivered in a box of 3X20ml packing.

    We can recommend this developer for the classical films, not for the modern T-grain type films.

    Best regards,

    Robert

    www.FotohuisRoVo.nl
     
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  15. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    So they are both what was once called "surface developers". Neofin contains only (?) metol, at one time it also contained a small amount of phenidone together with the metol.
    For those who want to know, Brenzcatechin = pyrocatechin.

    T-grain films generally work better with developers with more of a solvent effect, not so well with non-solvent. Classic films like EFKE give (as I already said) brilliant result with these developers. I have not tried AM-- developers, nor any other Cat-Q combination.
     
  16. Dr.Kollig

    Dr.Kollig Member

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    I tested AM 50 on FP4+ and PX and it performed as Robert said, great sharpness, no stain, grain was o.k. I think the Amoloco developers are a bit cheaper if you buy by the bottles and fill them in tiny glass bottles.

    Ultrafin Plus works great for me as push developer like TMZ at 6400 or HP5+ at 1600.

    Neofin Doku is for docu films developed to a low gamma.

    Emufin is a two bath developer based on a paraphenylene derivat, gives low contrast and low visuell sharpness. The first can be cured by doing Push 2, the later is a problem. Fine grain. No good for members of the church of Rodinal!

    Hurry up, Tetenal already killed have their range of developers!

    I think the Beutler Metol formula is not the same as Neofin formula, which feels more like Brenzcatchine, very sharp to the point where grain size starts to reduce resolution.

    Wolfram
     
  17. fhovie

    fhovie Subscriber

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    I am not so sure - I have seen exceptional results from TMY in XTOL - which only has 30g sulfite/liter, clearly a non solivent developer. Similar results in PC-Tea with no sulfite.

     
  18. garryl

    garryl Member

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    Anchell and Troop also make the claim that "Neofin Blue" is pyrocatechin based( The Film Developing Cookbook;chapter 6; pg.56 .
    I always thought it was his Metol formula. Anyone know for sure?
     
  19. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    From the warning on recent bottles, it is Metol. Ten years ago it was Metol/Phenidone. I don't think there has ever been pyrocatechin, pyrogallol or hydroquinone in it.

    I have reason to believe it is NOT his metol formula, but it is certainly very closely related - to the point of interchangeability.

    And to fhovie - a "true" surface developer will contain less than 5 gram sulfite/liter. Barely enough to keep the developing agent alive for the duration of developing.
     
  20. Fotohuis

    Fotohuis Member

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    This range of developers is already cheap: AM50, Eur. 2,61 3X20ml and easy to send.
    Further for the life time it is very important that no air is in the ampules. If you use 10ml you have to fill the ampule immediately to 1+1 and exactly to the top.

    And correct: Brenzcatechin = pyrocatechin.

    AM50 and FP4+ is one of the best combinations.

    Best regards,

    Robert

    www.FotohuisRoVo.nl
     
  21. Dr.Kollig

    Dr.Kollig Member

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    Peter (Löffler) of Phototec charges me € 4.20 for the 3 ampules AM 50 and 2,90 for the refill. He used to have free shipping on € 50 plus but changed that to € 250. Now if you could throw in some Brokkelkas for my mum, we might get into business :wink: .

    Just went into the kitchen for some more tea and picked up my last pack of Tetenal Neofin Red, there are information given about the chemistry.
    When I used Beutlers formula, stores very well as a A+B system, most films were about 7-8 mins, but APX 100 needed 14-16 mins, 8 mins on APX 100 looked like N-2 or more like dustbin. Similar to Neofin Blue times.

    Watch out for my last pack Neofin Red hitting €bay, minimum reserve € 200, collectors edition comes with black leather box and test print. :D

    Wolfram
     
  22. Fotohuis

    Fotohuis Member

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    Unfortunately the Rhine is going downstream here, so the bottle post will never arrive in your area. :tongue:
     
  23. rjr

    rjr Member

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    Robert,

    you could use the constant flow of caravans with yellow number tags flowing in the opposite direction during summers. ;-)

    Anyone interested in the full Beutler recipe with the three stock solutions? I am intrigued to post it in the chemistry section.
     
  24. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Is that the one I posted last year? Far back on the first page of non-staining developers?

    :tongue:
     
  25. rjr

    rjr Member

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    Ole,

    yes, that one. :wink: We should do everything to pull it back to attention. <g>

    Roman
     
  26. Fotohuis

    Fotohuis Member

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    I hate caravans, specially the yellow tag ones, which are mostly on the left side of the autobahn when I am going to Germany or the Czech Republic.

    Best regards,

    Robert
    (from the yellow tag country)