tetenal ra4 monobath vs ektacolor prime

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by danzyc, Oct 22, 2009.

  1. danzyc

    danzyc Member

    Messages:
    124
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Shooter:
    35mm
    hello friends could you tell me the difference between this two paper developer? in terms of color and sharpness..

    both have the blix.

    thanks
     
  2. hrst

    hrst Member

    Messages:
    1,300
    Joined:
    May 10, 2007
    Location:
    Finland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Don't buy Tetenal RA4. It will give you stained, yellowish highlights and leaves silver to the image. I've used three kits, none of them really worked. It's all about luck; if you somehow happen to get a new kit that's been only a few months on the shelf, you can get good results, but even then you have to watch out that you don't carry on the blix for more than a minute as it will still give you some yellowish stain.

    I changed to Kodak RA-4 and now my whites are whites! It's a nice feeling after two years of getting bad prints.
     
  3. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

    Messages:
    18,034
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    West Midland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    The Tetenal RA-4 kits are superb, I buy the minilab kit's which my dealer splits up, they are equally as good as the Kodak of Fuji products. these are commercial products in daily use for colour processing. if you have problems it's from improper use.

    Ian
     
  4. danzyc

    danzyc Member

    Messages:
    124
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Shooter:
    35mm
    the kodak blix is premixed as tetenal? when the tetenal kit is good the color is ok or a bit desaturated ?
     
  5. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

    Messages:
    18,034
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    West Midland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    The quality from the Tetenal chemistry should match the Kodak, they use the same process control strips to test them with minilabs, there's definitely no de-saturation. When I RA-4 print I replenish the Dev & Blix in a Nova 3 slot tank system.

    Ian
     
  6. hrst

    hrst Member

    Messages:
    1,300
    Joined:
    May 10, 2007
    Location:
    Finland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Ian, if you talk about bigger kits, they may have separate concentrates for different parts as they should. You are probably right that they are the same quality as Kodak stuff. Buy them if they are easily available.

    However, OP asked about "tetenal ra4 monobath". If it means the 2,5 liter kit that has "monoconcentrates", then all I said earlier apply. I'm not the only one encountered these problems. Search APUG for more information. In addition, these are not so easy to mix as "monoconcentrate" sounds like. The developer needs vigorous shaking for minute or two; in the same time, you could have mixed the developer from three separate concentrates. And the blix works only if it's fresh, say, less than 6-9 months from manufacturing time. And there is no date in the packages - only a serial number. You can ask Tetenal when the kit is manufactured.

    Easier way is to buy decent stuff; not these "mono-concentrates".
     
  7. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

    Messages:
    18,034
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    West Midland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Buying the Minilab Tetenal chemistry is actually much cheaper, and it'll keep better. There could be issues with the single bath blix going off, but the single bath Photocolor Blix was superb, and kept well.

    Ian
     
  8. danzyc

    danzyc Member

    Messages:
    124
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Shooter:
    35mm
    i have used this tetenal kit for the first time one years ago....after 5 months i ahve reused the same open kit and the paper seems to be yellow and later ..brown.....with a slight silver retention....
    the only problem is the whites???? or generally the color ??

    i have used also tetenal c41 with blix and the kit last for 8 months...after this time there s a yellow stain in the blix...and i have put it in the trash!
     
  9. hrst

    hrst Member

    Messages:
    1,300
    Joined:
    May 10, 2007
    Location:
    Finland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Kodak BLIX comes in two parts. Easy to mix and has a decent shelf life.

    When the Tetenal kit is good, the results are very close.

    I made a side-to-side comparison using the newest Tetenal kit (the one I got as a compensation from Tetenal - it's probably quite fresh). This applies to the 2,5 LITER MONO-CONCENTRATE KIT:

    With Tetenal, contrast is a little bit higher in shadows and you see less shadow detail (1min at 24C), compared to Kodak replenisher 2min10sec at 24C. However, this difference is very slight. The results could be same if Tetenal processing time is lowered to, say, 45-50 seconds.

    Color balance is same.

    Color saturation is same.

    Tetenal blix, even when fresh and working, gives a little yellowish stain. This is hard to notice. However, you HAVE to be careful with blix time. So short as possible to clear all the silver -- 45 secs to 1 min. Otherwise there will be more stain.

    So, the differences are quite small. HOWEVER. This applies only to WORKING Tetenal blix. When it goes bad, the effects are horrible --- and yes, it GOES bad easily. It can be bad even when you buy it. Silver left to print, leading to lower saturation and too dark images; halides left to print, causing prints to darken even more in light; horrible brown staining.

    I've bought three kits. One of them had bad blix straight from the start. Two other worked occasionally, but the blix went bad quite quickly after mixing with water. These kind of random problems are not funny at all. I want a product that simply works. And it's not cheap to buy stuff that goes bad quickly. Now I bought 20 liter KODAK kit from Ag Photographic. Comes as four 5-liter kits so you don't have to open big concentrate bottles that would go bad more quickly. The price was twice a Tetenal's 2,5-liter kit. So, I got four 5-liter kits with a price of one. And these work!
     
  10. Svitantti

    Svitantti Member

    Messages:
    20
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2007
    Shooter:
    35mm Pan
    PE has told us it is pretty much impossible to make cheap mono-concentrate BLIX that would keep good. At least Kodak couldn't make it, would Tetenal have found a secret receipe? No, judging by hrst's experienced (we are in same Photo club in Tampere, Finland).

    As PE said, bleach and fix will not stay good for too long if they are mixed together. Often it takes more than a month or two for the concentrates to get the the user, so it could already be bad when he gets it.

    The same applies for all MONO kits. Bleach and fix should only be mixed by the final user to expect a decent storage time for the Blix.

    It shouldn't be too hard to have 2 bottles instead of just one, if it has this big advantages... And the makers of these kits should know it, I think. Especially now that there are not that many users and the bottles might sit on the shelfes much longer than they used to.

    So, they might work if they are still fresh... And they still might give you pictures if they are already bad, but not just like the ones you get with fresh BLIX.
     
  11. Oye

    Oye Member

    Messages:
    7
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I recently bought a 1 liter Tetenal mono kit that should be quite fresh, as it came directly from the store. But the blix was crystallized and hard as stone in a 0,5 cm layer on the bottom of the bottle. I managed to dissolve it and have used it for some prints, but the the result is not satisfying, the light parts are a little greyish. This is quite different form my earlier experiences with this product, the prints were brilliant. Maybe color printing has become a rare activity and the chemistry kits grow old on the shelves of the sellers.
     
  12. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

    Messages:
    18,034
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    West Midland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I suspect that's the truth of the matter.

    I used a single solution Blix right from it's release in the early 80's up until about 5 years ago with no problems with C41 or RA-4, I only switched to a two part blix for RA-4 because the Tetenal Minilab kits were so much cheaper.

    Ian
     
  13. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

    Messages:
    25,773
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    At Kodak, AFAIK, all efforts to produce a stable single part RA blix did not work for all of the reasons stated above. By the time the Blix reached the customer it would be cloudy, crystals may have formed, and the Dmin of the print would be brown, yellow or orange. Some silver and silver halide might remain to discolor the print with keeping.

    So, from reports I have seen here, I would not recommend single part kits of Developer or Blix. From my direct experience at EK, they have limited shelf life and lab life after dilution. However, my tests were all run on raw formulations compounded from a variety of patents for testing blix rate, development rate, and shelf life.

    In another thread, someone reported that they had gotten a note from one company that stated that there was a problem as described but that it was now solved. IDK. If you wish to keep testing it, you may find this to be true.

    Since my initial work, I have discovered a method to make a one part blix kit for film and paper, but I regard a 1 part developer to still be impossible.

    PE
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 24, 2009
  14. perkeleellinen

    perkeleellinen Member

    Messages:
    2,258
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2008
    Location:
    Warwickshire
    Shooter:
    35mm
    I'm using the mono kit made by Fotospeed in a Nova slot processor. Very concious that my prints may be subpar but as this is my first try at RA4, I've got no standard to compare against. That said, they look nice to me.

    I'd try the 2-part kit from Kodak but when I checked I couldn't tell if it would work at room temperature (~18C).
     
  15. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

    Messages:
    25,773
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    The Kodak RA-RT developer replenisher and RA blix work at 68 F or 20 C.

    PE
     
  16. perkeleellinen

    perkeleellinen Member

    Messages:
    2,258
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2008
    Location:
    Warwickshire
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Thanks for the clarification. I think I'll try the Kodak next and compare results with the mono kit.
     
  17. hrst

    hrst Member

    Messages:
    1,300
    Joined:
    May 10, 2007
    Location:
    Finland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    As you live in the UK, buy these: http://www.ag-photographic.co.uk/process-ra4-117-c.asp . Developer and blix. I didn't buy starter at all because it's said that you can just use replenisher. It works. I use 2 mins at room temp (23...25C) for both dev and blix as PE suggested. Great results.

    I also made side-to-side comparison with Tetenal mono kit. Differences are so small that it's hard to see. BUT, that Tetenal blix was okay when I made the test. It goes bad easily. That's the problem with it.
     
  18. perkeleellinen

    perkeleellinen Member

    Messages:
    2,258
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2008
    Location:
    Warwickshire
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Thanks hrst. The link to Ag photographic is where I was looking, but wasn't sure about room temp results. I just bought some paper from Ag photographic: great service!
     
  19. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

    Messages:
    25,773
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    There are a few reports here on APUG that Fuji CA paper does not work as well as Kodak Endura at 20 deg C. I have never verified this, but I do caution you that it may be the case.

    PE
     
  20. perkeleellinen

    perkeleellinen Member

    Messages:
    2,258
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2008
    Location:
    Warwickshire
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Thanks for that. Currently I'm using Ektacolor Edge and I've got some boxes of Endura now. I decided to standardise on the Kodak after reading posts here and unless there is an actual discontinuation, I'll be sticking with one manufacturer.
     
  21. Roger2000

    Roger2000 Member

    Messages:
    29
    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2009
    Location:
    Northern Eng
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Well, I've just today exchanged my b&w for a colour head, and can't wait to get going on some Supra Endura. Processing will be done in a Paterson thermo drum.

    I'm rather confused about the best developer / blix combo to go for though, and am currently thinking of getting a Nova kit.

    Is this recommended? I had a look at the Kodak stuff which someone recommended at AP Photographic, but it seems to be out of stock.

    Many thanks.