the annoying shutter squeal (canon)

Discussion in '35mm Cameras and Accessories' started by flsimages, Apr 5, 2013.

  1. flsimages

    flsimages Member

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    So i have an a-1 that has been with us since new in 1984. It was the first camera i shot when i was about 6 or 7, then stole it from my dad when i was like 18 for good.

    the big thing i have is the shutter squeal as the shutter closes. I have sent it off a few times, both in japan and the US when i was in each place for CLA and any repairs needed. both times they said it was perfect (dont remember off the top of my head the places) Its got a good 100+ rolls through it. mostly me since my parents never shot it really.

    So the question is. where do i send it to get it fixed once and for all? I use this camera constantly and want to keep it working well into the future so hopefully my kids can use it as well.

    thanks!
     
  2. AgX

    AgX Member

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    I am surprised that a commercial CLA did not solve the issue (if I understand you right).
    As you are a mechanic by profession you should dare a repair by yourself. On the net you'll find the original A-1 repair manual as well as several manuals by DIY people just for solving the squeal issue with type-A cameras.
     
  3. Chan Tran

    Chan Tran Member

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    I read the test report by Norman Goldberg when the A-1 first came out. He said due to its design the A-1 would be prone to lubricant dried out.
     
  4. flsimages

    flsimages Member

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    exactly. it works fine for about 3 rolls, then goes back to squeaking. i HEARD of swapping some f-1 parts into the a-1 to alleviate the problem, but now i cannot find that link anymore :sad:

    if i could source the parts and jazz id do it. i pulled my EOS-1 apart to fix the shutter button, so im not too worried about it
     
  5. Mackinaw

    Mackinaw Member

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    F-1 parts won't fix it. The squeak comes from a gear assembly on the side of the mirror box. A DYI project that requires nothing more than a drop of oil in the right place. You can apply the oil without taking apart the camera, but you have to know where to apply it. Maybe ask a question on the classic camera repair forum. Lot of knowledgeable folks there:

    http://www.kyphoto.com/classics/forum/messages/2/2.html?1365156882

    Jim B.
     
  6. BMbikerider

    BMbikerider Member

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    The 'squeal' comes from the gear train used in the mirror return. The repair involves removing the top plate and lubricating the gears. Done properly it will or should last many years. Seemingly a simple task but from what I have been told, not a job for the fain hearted.
     
  7. Laurent

    Laurent Subscriber

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    The repair man who fixed mine (BrunoLancement in france) told me to avoid letting the camera become too hot if I was to use it afterwards. It'been two years and the squeak seems to be gone for good
     
  8. benjiboy

    benjiboy Subscriber

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    It's the fly wheel on the mirror braking mechanism that needs one drop of clock oil in a hyperdermic needle, it can be accessed by removing the bottom plate and inserting the needle as far as it will go inside the front of the body just behind the lens mount on the right hand side with the front of the camers facing you, but remenber to remove the battery first.
     
  9. Yeeski

    Yeeski Member

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    "I read the test report by Norman Goldberg when the A-1 first came out. He said due to its design the A-1 would be prone to lubricant dried out. "

    I have the April 1979 issue of Popular Photography in which the A-1 lab report appears. Mr. Goldberg made no such comment in his stripdown report.

    "You can't say anything on the Internet that isn't true."
    "Where did you hear that?"
    "On the Internet."
     
  10. flsimages

    flsimages Member

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    there is no perm. fix for it? no part that was upgraded down the line to fix it?
     
  11. John Koehrer

    John Koehrer Subscriber

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    To do it right needs the mirror box removed.
    I don't bother.
    Remove the cover plate surrounding the lens mount...4 screws.
    Remove the Top left screw in the lens mount. Camera FACING you.
    Benji recommends going through the bottom, the result is the same but going in through the front puts you just above the offending pivot point.
    Hold the camera at about a 45 degree angle, wind side down and with a pinpoint oiler/syringe or other pointy thing apply a small drop of oil. Let the camera sit for a few minutes and work the shutter a few times. If it isn't completely healed, do it again. SMALL drop.

    Watch oil would be best clipper oil is also very fine. NO WD-40, no 3 in 1. Watch oil is clear and has a viscosity like water.
    I can't stress how important the oil is. Check with a watchmaker and see if he can give you a few drops in a film cannister
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 5, 2013
  12. dances_w_clouds

    dances_w_clouds Subscriber

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    There are people who are doing the oil from the bottom of the camera. Using a syringe that fill ink cartridges. ONLY one or 2 drops is all you need. It may not sound like it works right away but shoot a few rolls and you will notice. Very simple and use clock oil as mentioned. I have already done 4 with no complains.
    Here is the video & you can use a screw driver instead of the steak knife.....

    [video=youtube;90eAbMq9h4Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90eAbMq9h4Q[/video]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 5, 2013
  13. dances_w_clouds

    dances_w_clouds Subscriber

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    Yes they did fix it. They made the EOS

    :laugh: :cool:
     
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  15. thundertwin72

    thundertwin72 Member

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    You could eliminate the annoying squeal using this:

    Canon A-1, AE1, AE1 Program Squeak Repair Kit

    I used it with my Canon A1 and AE1 Program with excellent results.

    This kit contains all necessary equipment to perform the task. It also includes some detailed instructions.

    Regards.
     
  16. AgX

    AgX Member

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    What is that grease for included in that kit?
     
  17. Poisson Du Jour

    Poisson Du Jour Member

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    The T-series came before the EOS (T30, T50, T90). :smile:
    No squeaks that I could discern in the T-series bodies which were the springboard for the EOS bodies.
     
  18. AgX

    AgX Member

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    There was no T30, but T50-T90.

    The T60 even was an outcast as being a modified model from Cosina.
     
  19. flsimages

    flsimages Member

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    psh. i has one of those too. an eos 1 lol
     
  20. thundertwin72

    thundertwin72 Member

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    I am not an expert in this field but the oil seems to that applied to the ancient sewing machines.


    The grease lithium appears to be, applied to different gears which are under the base plate.

    Regards.
     
  21. Markster

    Markster Member

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    I am not an expert in repairing it, but I have read up on specific details regarding what makes the squeal. It isn't dried lubricant. It's more akin to a pin that rotates in a hole, and through forces acting upon that pin the hold elongates to an oval shape and the pin starts wearing oddly as well.

    All those "fixes" to quiet the noise with drops of oil strategically placed are only band-aids on a larger issue.

    The issue would be addressed by a proper CLA. If you got a CLA and it didn't resolve it -- you got ripped off. They didn't do a full cleaning and didn't replace the worn parts. I had an AE-1P that squealed horribly for many years until I got it CLAed. When it came back it was quiet as a new model and it has remained so for many years and to this day.

    I'm sorry to say I think you got swindled for the most part on your past CLA experiences.
     
  22. Excalibur2

    Excalibur2 Member

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    H'mm so what about all the A model Canons that haven't been used much to wear anything out, but have the squeak................
     
  23. Markster

    Markster Member

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    The part that wears out is plastic, after all. Logically it could be the age of the plastic and other factors that can make it happen.

    Practically, I don't know. Just that the sources I read about this were professionals that repaired and used Canon A's for a living. Something about a bushing wearing out. They would always take an extra bushing on assignments for replacements in the field.
     
  24. Andrew K

    Andrew K Subscriber

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    OK - and I'm only going to say this once...

    the ONLY way to service any A series Canon camera correctly is to REMOVE THE mirror box totally!

    Then you can lubricate all the mirror governor gears, clean the mirror box release magnet, clean the AE contact and brushes on the side of the mirror box, re-lubricate the shutter rollers so the shutter blinds run consistantly each time they are fired (so each curtain runs at 14.5MS from memory - its been a while since I've adjusted some) so that you can get consistant shutter speeds.

    It also easier with the box out to clean the other switches and contacts, although you can remove and clean the shutter release magnet on the bottom without taking the box out.

    The problem is that this takes time.....when I was repairing them for a living at Canon Australia and did them on a regular basis a A1 would take me 2 1/2 hours or so, a AE1 about the same (I hated working on them because of the tungsten wire running from the shutter speed dial to the ASA dial), and around 1 1/2 hours for a AE1 Program...

    Even back then most technicians would remove the front plate, or the top cover and squirt in a bit of oil to stop the governor from squeaking (the squeak is caused by dry bearings on the mirror governor mechanism). And some even drilled a hole in the bottom chasis of the camera and squirted in oil that way! The nett result was that a "serivce" could be done in under a hour.....

    So if you want to get the camera serviced correctly you need to find a technician who was trained by Canon to do it the correct way. I know one, but he's in Melbourne, Australia, and at 65 he's talking about retirement.......

    And it's not me! Sorry - I don't do A1's any more. AE1P - yes - love those, but I won't touch any of the other A series anymore - the circuit boards are getting old and brittle, and no matter how careful you are tracks can (and do) break, and it takes hours to get everything working agian....

    Cheers

    Andrew

    PS - and no - the T series didn't develop a squeak...they have their own unique problems with disintergrating rubber buffers in the shutter unit causing the shutter blades to stick............
     
  25. Andrew K

    Andrew K Subscriber

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    One other thing.... the plastic parts on A series don't "wear out".

    I've serviced/repaired good a few hundred A series cameras over 20 years, and aside from physical damage caused by dirt/use of force (and the very rare manufacturing fault) I've never replaced any of the plastic parts in a camera....

    The squeak in A series cameras is caused by the original lubricant in the mirror governor mechanism drying out over several years - this could happen in as little as 4 or 5 years depending on the climate the cameras were used and stored in (this is based in my experiences working for Canon in the early 90's, when some A series models had only been discontinued in Australia for 4 or 5 years...)

    Magnets (especially relese magnets)...that's another story....some get so dirty you can't clean them, and the only way to fix them is to replace them....

    One other thing I should say - don't forget that these camera were discontinued around 20 years ago - there are really no new spare parts available, so often you have to use a second hand part to get one going, which can present it's own set of problems....
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 9, 2013
  26. benjiboy

    benjiboy Subscriber

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    What the uninformed refer to as a "shutter squeal" on Canon A series cameras ( it doesn't occur on the F series ) is a dry bearing on the fly wheel on the mirror braking mechanism, often results in people trying to lubricate the shutter mechanism with disastrous results.