The best speed for Kodak 160NC and 400NC?

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by Thomas Böttcher, Sep 22, 2009.

  1. Thomas Böttcher

    Thomas Böttcher Member

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    Hello everybody,

    I read that the normal speed for the 160 NC would not be the best. It would be better to use 80 ASA. Is this right?
    And which is the best speed for the 400NC?

    Please tell me your experience.

    Thanks a lot, Thomas
     
  2. MikeSeb

    MikeSeb Member

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    This will differ for each person's metering system and methods, and processing.

    I've shot extensively with both of these films. For my particular circumstances, I shoot both films at box speed. I've shot them at up to 2/3 stop slower speeds without much improvement.

    Experimentation is the key. Both films have enough latitude that they can survive the most ham-fisted photographer. :smile:
     
  3. Jeff Kubach

    Jeff Kubach Member

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    I also shoot both art box speed and got good results.

    Jeff
     
  4. bdial

    bdial Subscriber

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    160 and 400 seem like good choices, as Mike says, much depends on your equipment and how you use it.
     
  5. Bruce Watson

    Bruce Watson Member

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    My local pro lab still does my C-41. I find that box speed works best with their processing for both films.
     
  6. Tim Gray

    Tim Gray Member

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    I shoot them at box speeds. Every once in a while, I'll add a +1/3 compensation as a safety net, but it's probably not necessary.
     
  7. naugastyle

    naugastyle Member

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    I prefer box speed. I might overexpose slightly (based on meter, not by shooting at a different speed) for certain shots but not throughout.

    VC though...I think looks better underexposed.
     
  8. BenZucker

    BenZucker Member

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    I usually expose the the 160nc at 80 and the 400nc at 200, I shoot all my color neg film at one stop over exposed from the box speed. Hope this helps.
     
  9. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    Box Speed

    Steve
     
  10. Q.G.

    Q.G. Inactive

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    160 NC at ISO 100 for me.
     
  11. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    I use 100 and 320 respectively instead of 160 and 400, whenever possible.

    The films are not slow, I just prefer that extra assurance by overexposure a tad.

    PE
     
  12. DanielStone

    DanielStone Member

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    160nc:100, pull 1/3 stop (I like the lower contrast a tad)

    400nc:250, run normal

    there is no definitive answer to your questions unless you test. This obviously would involve the meter you intend to use, internal or handheld.

    Include a colorchecker chart or gray card(at least) in some of your shots.

    Are you wet printing, or doing the hybrid process? (I do both, and I've found the hybrid process allows for greater contrast control). My speeds work for both for me.

    Shoot one roll @ 160, one at 125, and one at 100, and 80(if you want to be very thorough) :smile:.

    Develop 1st(160) roll @ NORMAL(according to 3:15 or normal at the lab), scan or print. See results. See if you like what you see.

    Develop subsequent rolls(2-3 or 2-4) at normal,etc...

    You can see where I'm going. I have homework to do :smile:


    best of luck!

    Dan
     
  13. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Here is a series shot on 160 VC and processed with normal development times.

    They are scans of contact prints on Endura paper with constant exposure time (12") and only the f stop was varied.

    The exposures in order are leftmost normal ISO 160.

    Second column ISO 25, 50 (top, bottom)
    Third column ISO 100, 200 (top, bottom)
    Forth column ISO 400, 800 (top, bottom)

    You can see visually the huge latitude. I did the same test on Portra 400.

    Shot with an RZ67, prism meter on auto.

    PE
     

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  15. Thomas Böttcher

    Thomas Böttcher Member

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    Thank you very much guy´s.
    There are many different answers so I have to make my own experience. My last 160 NC I pulled to 100ASA and I got good results.

    Thanks, Thomas
     
  16. benjiboy

    benjiboy Subscriber

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    Boxed speed with both 35mm and 120.
     
  17. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Well, my point in the photos above was that there is a 1 stop latitude leeway in which you do not have to push or pull. Just normal processing with a 1/3 overexposure will probably give you the best of all possible worlds with any format of a given negative film.

    PE
     
  18. brucemuir

    brucemuir Member

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    PE,
    Could you please explain those examples a little better? ? ?
    What are the ISO ratings for the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, & 5th contact sheets?
     
  19. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Bruce;

    This is 1 roll of 120 film exposed at (from L to R top to bottom):

    ISO 160 - reference, 25 - t, 50 - b, 100 - t, 200 - b, 400 - t, 800 b.

    These were then contact printed onto Endura paper at 12" with one stop increments from f5.6 to f22. The film and paper were processed normally. Due to the changes in f stop, the paper should show at least one image that is "correct" or nearly correct for the ISO rating. The result shows that usable or even quite good pictures can be obtained from about ISO 50 to about ISO 400. And, no push is needed.

    So, all of the sheets have the same ISO rating, just a different printing exposure to "highlight" the best frame with the "right" ISO for the amount of light given during printing. The bottom line is that negative films have a huge latitude without push or pull processing and usually look best about 1/3 stop overexposed.

    PE
     
  20. brucemuir

    brucemuir Member

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    PE,
    Ahh,
    thank you kindly.
    You varied the printing times as well as the exposure on the RZ.

    Thanks
    Bruce
     
  21. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    The print time was constant, the f stop varied.

    PE
     
  22. 2F/2F

    2F/2F Member

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    If I have time to meter everything properly, I use box speed. When using sunny 16/guess exposure, I use 125 and 250 on cameras with the international shutter speed increments, and 100 and 200 on cameras with the older increments. A little overexposure won't hurt, and sunny 16 is not about being exact. It is about getting a usable shot without wasting time metering. Unlike some, I do not believe that down rating all the time makes for a better negative. If testing has indicated that with the lab I am using, upon normal printing, tones are not reliably falling where I believe that they should, then I will always re rate that film. For example, I do this with Fuji Pro 400H, which I rate at 500 to get the shadows to print the way I like. I use an incident meter or a spot meter; not an in-camera reflected meter. I believe that much of the recommendation to always down rate comes from people who simply do not know how to (or don't take the time to) meter well, and always use their in-camera reflected meter.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 26, 2009
  23. brucemuir

    brucemuir Member

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    should have said printing exposure

    thanks PE
     
  24. brucemuir

    brucemuir Member

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    Well not everyone is shooting stuff that allows for a slow, careful analysis of the entire scene.

    I usually downrate based on my prior experiences and to at least hopefully ensure good shadow detail with neg films if I'm shooting on the run.
     
  25. 2F/2F

    2F/2F Member

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    That is why I used the phrases "much of" and "always down rate". Many people say to just do it across the board, all the time, with every film, because it simply gives better results in every way, every time. What you describe is exactly the reason that I stated I down rate as well, when I do.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 26, 2009
  26. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Actually, my habitual downrating of color neg started about the time when we converted from ASA to ISO. It was a time when many films were off by about 1/10th of a stop to 1/3 of a stop. Fuji color neg was a full 1/2 stop slow IIRC and to boot, the 3 layers were not balanced for daylight. It was 1/3 stop slow if the color balance was adjusted in printing.

    In any event, I learned to use that 1/3 stop to advantage and have kept on doing it in my non-DX cameras. In my DX cameras, I let the camera set the ISO rating. I recently exposed some Portra 800 at 400 by accident and the results were just fine. I had left an old tab on the camera back for Portra 400. My bad! I had forgotten what I put into the camera due to old age.

    PE