The old Motor Sport car "Leaning Forward" effect

Discussion in 'Exposure Discussion' started by hoffy, Jun 19, 2009.

  1. hoffy

    hoffy Member

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    Howdy,

    Firstly, I am not trying to get this kind of effect, I am just curious on what may cause it.

    I have seen many motor sport pictures from the first few decades of the 20th century, where the cars appear to be leaning forward and have often wondered what causes that effect:

    http://crashingthegoalie.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/2335460135_558a93fa1a_d.jpg

    Now, my guess is its due to the slow nature of the actual shutter movement. Am I correct? Does anyone know what causes this?

    Thanks
     
  2. Soeren

    Soeren Member

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    Focalplaneshutter with "slow" movement. In other words Yes you are right
    Best regards
     
  3. Soeren

    Soeren Member

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    And if the photographer panned, the buildings will lean backwards too, wierd looking :smile:
     
  4. Andy K

    Andy K Member

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    I think it was caused by vertically moving shutters and (compared to today) relatively slow shutter speeds.
     
  5. 2F/2F

    2F/2F Member

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    The focal plane shutters in press cameras traveled vertically...in fact, they still do! :wink: At slow enough curtain speeds (correction by Soeren), the car in motion was in a different spot when the shutter slit ended its travel as when it began it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 19, 2009
  6. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

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    just to add onto 2f's post
    a lot of the focal plane shutters were slots in a fabric
    that traveled from top to bottom on the film plane.

    this can be done easily today with a press camera ( like a speed graphic )
    or a graflex slr type camera ..

    john
     
  7. Soeren

    Soeren Member

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    Hmm Im sure you mean the speed of the curtains (which is constant) cause the "shutter speed" is made from the width of the gap between the curtains. So you can have "high shutterspeeds" using slow curtains.
    Best regards
     
  8. hoffy

    hoffy Member

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    I agree with that. If you look at the picture of the Marmon Wasp, you can see that there is a clear stopping of the action, but the car is still leaning. This suggests to me that the shutter speed was relatively quick, but the actual shutter movement was slow.

    Thanks guys for your responses!
     
  9. bobwysiwyg

    bobwysiwyg Subscriber

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    So, one could achieve this affect even with a camera having horizontal shutter curtains by rotating the camera from landscape to portrait orientation?
     
  10. 2F/2F

    2F/2F Member

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    Yes, you are right. Sloppy and incorrect use of terminology on my part. I should have added that the curtain moving slowly combined with the fast shutter from a tiny slit is what causes it. I assumed it was common knowledge that the width of the slit on a shutter is used to control the quote-unquote "speed" (the exposure time), even though it is not technically changing the speed of the curtain by definition of the word speed.

    I also hinted at exactly what John said: This can, of course, still be done today. Any Speed Graphic or similarly featured camera will do it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 19, 2009
  11. 2F/2F

    2F/2F Member

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    Yes. However, as the one fellow mentioned, the curtain moving slowly is a necessity.
     
  12. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    On old Graflex shutters, there's a tension setting that controls the speed of the curtain travel and a slit width setting that controls the amount of light let in by the shutter. Some of these shutters had a set of fixed slits on a long single curtain, and some had a single adjustable slit with two curtains, which was a bit less reliable, being more complex.

    On my 5x7 Press Graflex (a camera much like the one Lartigue used in his famous racing photo), it takes up to about 1/5 sec for the shutter to travel the height of the film gate, depending on the tension setting, but there are four slit widths, so at the highest tension with the smallest slit, I can have a shutter speed of 1/1500 sec.
     
  13. polyglot

    polyglot Member

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    this effect is still visible in current-model high-performance SLRs: you just need faster-moving subjects like propellers to make it visible.

    edit: "Hi, Hoffy!"... I ain't stalking you, only noticed whose thread it was after I posted :smile:
     
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  15. Akalai

    Akalai Member

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  16. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    Really! And all this time I thought that the old cars leaned forward, just as the old cars leaned into the turn! :surprised:

    I always knew that I could never get my car to do that.

    Steve
     
  17. Schlapp

    Schlapp Member

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    I use this effect and its really easy.
    I use my KOWA6 MM which has a 't' setting on the shutter. I have a piece of cardboard cut with a slot in it about 1-2mm wide and edged with fogged sheet film.
    Place the cardboard so that it covers the lens. Open the shutter and then draw the slot across the lens, then shut the shutter. There. Sorted. see here and here .
     
  18. mike c

    mike c Subscriber

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    Ha Ha!!! My old car still does leans in the turns, and when going fast (if I can peddle fast enough) it actually leans back, if it wasn't for the gum and duct tape well.... that's another story.

    Mike
     
  19. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

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    very nice!
    the only times i do it is
    with my graflex &C cameras
    it is good to know there are other techniques :smile:
     
  20. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    Taking photographs showing a vehicle leaning forward is part of my fascination with getting a Speed Graphic or equivalent.

    Steve
     
  21. PeteZ8

    PeteZ8 Member

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    Interesting. I've often wondered about this effect being possible but never really paid attention to real world examples.
     
  22. Jeff Kubach

    Jeff Kubach Member

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    I understand what is going on, but still I love those pictures!

    Jeff
     
  23. hoffy

    hoffy Member

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    Howdy Poly. Nice to see you over here.

    To be honest, I have never really noticed it with the props. I suppose when ever I have taken aviation pics, I have tried to blur the props, so you can't tell. I also suppose that you would just about need to be face on to get the same effect in that scenario (& of course, we are talking high performance current FILM slr's :wink: )
     
  24. polyglot

    polyglot Member

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    of course we are :smile: Have you tried the 28-75/2.8 on your 7000 yet? Is it working as well as expected?
     
  25. hoffy

    hoffy Member

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    No, I haven't!! When ever I have had a chance, its been horrible weather!
     
  26. brian steinberger

    brian steinberger Member

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    This is very interesting stuff. I wouldn't mind trying the effect out for myself. Which model Graflex's have the slow moving slit-type shutter? Did they only make them certain years?