The search for a D-76R substitute...

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by streetshot, Dec 12, 2011.

  1. streetshot

    streetshot Member

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    Following the demise of Kodak-packaged D-76R I thought I would need to find some other developer - or simply go back to D-76 1:1. Recently I discovered Freestyle Legacy L76R but didn't trust that it was anywhere near the same as D-76R. After several conversations with the tech department at Freestyle I was told the Legacy L76R is identical to D-76R and should be used exactly as the Kodak instructions indicate. After the first 90 rolls - my usual dumping point with a gallon of stock D-76 that had been replenished - I'm not as happy as I thought I might be. The L76R replenished D-76 seemed to lose its potency after the first 50 rolls - way before the same D-76 would when I replenished with the original D-76R. I'm a high volume user so all of this took place over about 4 weeks so there is no issue with the replenished stuff getting "old".

    And so I find myself back to square one. In this recent experience the Freestyle replenisher is not behaving like the original and while its something I'd like to avoid I think its time I moved toward mixing my own "real" D-76R from scratch. Can anyone confirm the formula in The Darkroom Cookbook (formula #25) is authentic to the original? Are there alternates?

    My thanks to all, this is an amazing resource!

    Best,

    Michael
     
  2. Mike Wilde

    Mike Wilde Member

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    Well, a replenisher gives back what is consumed, and not what isn't. So there may be less sulfuite, but most likely no bromide, since it, as well as iodides, naturally build in the working slution as you process film. You may get a bit of the alkali, and certainly the developing agents.

    I DIY mix from the Darkroom Cookbook all the time, and am always satisfied with the material the authors have compiled.

    A gallon of replenished d-76 processes a lot of film.
    How do you find time to print your avergae of 860 plus images that you claim to be shooting each week?
     
  3. BradS

    BradS Subscriber

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    nothing wrong with D76 (1+1) but you'll not get 90 rolls out of a gallon - nor even 50. Perhaps, you can live with the 50 rolls that the Legacy D76R is providing? Then again, I have to ask, how many times did you get 90 rolls from a gallon of replenished D76? Maybe the 50 rolls is within normal process variation? I'm thinking even 50 rolls is pretty damned good...why worry about it?
     
  4. jon.oman

    jon.oman Member

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    I would be interested in this as well.
     
  5. Rick A

    Rick A Subscriber

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    Freestyle sells Legacy Pro L-76 and Legacy Pro L-76R, which is purported to be clones of Kodak D-76 and D-76R.
     
  6. Newt_on_Swings

    Newt_on_Swings Member

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    Kodak d-76 is $0.50 cents more than the freestyle stuff per gallon mix. What spurred you on to try a clone?
     
  7. Rick A

    Rick A Subscriber

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    I don't use either. Years ago, I processed enough film to justify D-76 replenished, I actually liked the look better than D-76 one shot.
    The OP was asking, I merely give an option. I have tried the Legacy Pro L-76, looks and acts very close to Kodak product to be a viable alternative if the real thing cannot be found. BTW, the Legacy Pro Micro-x developer is a great substitute for Microdal X.
     
  8. streetshot

    streetshot Member

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    Understood Mike...it is the "look" I had been getting from the replenished D-76 I want...hence the search to find the right replacement. So far I'm less impressed with the L76R and really question its "identical-to-D76R" promise from Freestyle.

    And yes, its no mere claim or boast, I do shoot a lot of film. I don't print everything I shoot (does anyone?) - I make contacts then workprints from there - anywhere from 1 to 6 workprints from each contacted roll. I'm a working photographer.
     
  9. streetshot

    streetshot Member

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    Hi Brad. You're right, D-76 1:1 had been my standard for years until I discovered the look I would get from replenished D-76. The actual output doesn't concern me, it is the suspicion its not the same thing...and it appears this is the case for reasons of the reduced performance and sudden expiry of the stock. Not worried in the least though I am eager to find the right replacement.
     
  10. GraemeMitchell

    GraemeMitchell Member

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    I also found the legacy pro clone (though in my test it was the hc-110 clone) was not the same to the kodak original. I was actually surprised at how different it was. Anyway, that doesn't matter.

    I do know a fellow that has been replenishing a tank of d-76 w/ normal d-76 ever since D-76r was axed. He runs a lot of film (at a pro lab) and has had about 3500 rolls through the tank he has had going doing such (3.5 gallon). He said he hadn't noticed anything out of the ordinary, but that he's been keeping a closer eye on it over the months, and that if it does begin to hint at loosing contrast he spikes it w/ a liter of fresh.
     
  11. artonpaper

    artonpaper Subscriber

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    D-76R:
    H2O 750.0 ml
    Metol 3.0 g
    Sod sulfite 100.0 g
    Hydoquinone 7.5 g
    Borax 20 g
    H2O to make 1 Liter
     
  12. degruyl

    degruyl Member

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    I would think that using D76 as its own replenisher would work, but I might be wrong.

    Kodak tends to use surface treatments and additives to ensure that the chemistry dissolves easlily and is entirely foolproof. These might be the difference between what you are seeing with the legacy (which is probably based on the active chemistry) and the yellow packet.
     
  13. brucemuir

    brucemuir Member

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    I have a one gallon envelope (Kodak D76R) I was sent by accident back in maybe 2004/5.
    I doubt I'll use it cuz if I try replenished I'll go XTOL.

    It's probably not worth shipping but if the OP is interested, hit me up.
     
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  15. artonpaper

    artonpaper Subscriber

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    Notice in the above formula for D-76R, that it has a lot more borax (10x) than the formula for the developer. This would indicate that a significant adjustment to pH is necessary after development. This also suggests that using D-76 as its own replenisher might not yield consistent results, but you never know.
     
  16. streetshot

    streetshot Member

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    Hi Arton....

    Where did this formula come from?

    Thanks

     
  17. snederhiser

    snederhiser Member

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    Hello;
    How many cans do you need? I have some excess inventory and could send you some. Also Photographers Formulary sells a version of D-76 and D-76r. Try looking on Kodak's site for the formula, but usually is D-76 with a PH stabilizer. Steven.
     
  18. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

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    This is the formula for D-76R as published by Kodak.

    BTW, it is important to specify the correct case of the letter following 76 in the D-76 formulas. D-76h is a different formula from D-76H.
     
  19. GraemeMitchell

    GraemeMitchell Member

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    So if you had a tank of d-76 going, self replenished w/ more d-76, could you just add borax to balance that ph shift back out? - could possibly do a aquarium ph test to see where it's at at any given time and bring it back into line. Or would it not dissolve or not work unless it was part of the original powdered mix?

    In which case could one add say extra, say, 15 or grams of borax in each gallon you intend to use as replenisher before mixing?
     
  20. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

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    No. If you look at the two formulas for D-76 and D-76R you see that the amounts of Metol and hydroquinine are greater in D-76R than in D-76. This
    compensates for the amount of each lost in the developing process. Increasing the pH by adding more borax would help but probably not enough. pH papers are also not accurate enough for adjusting developer pH.
     
  21. GraemeMitchell

    GraemeMitchell Member

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    I see.

    I was just asking b/c I remember the d-76 tech pub naming two replenishment techniques (I think depending on whether you ran TMAX films or not, but I may be remembering wrong). There's the first "standard" replenishment scheme which was something like 25-30mil of d-76r per roll. But then there was "modified" replenishment technique if one was running tmax film at all, and that was a mix of, of the top of my head, 1 part d-76r to 4 parts regular d-76 replenishing at 70ml per roll...or something like that.

    I'm just throwing those numbers out, don't have the tech pub in front of me. But the second modified way is darn near self replenishment. Unless I either read the tech pub wrong or am not remembering it properly. But figured maybe a pinch of borax every once in awhile could help to keep a self replenished tank in line.

    Guess it all depends on how much you're willing to feel out and get to know your tank opposed to doing it by the numbers.
     
  22. artonpaper

    artonpaper Subscriber

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    Sorry I have not answered your question about where the formula came from, I got busy, then I forgot. As Gerald C Koch said, it's the Kodak formula. Available all over the place. I have it in several books, in particular, the Darkroom Cookbook, by Stephen G. Anchell. I don't use D-76, but I developed 800 sheets of 4 x 5 for a photographer, as he shipped it to me over the summer of 2010. He wanted D-76 replenished. I followed Kodak's recommended rates and the guy was pleased with the results. I used store bought developer, but mixed my own replenisher according to the formula above. If you search around you may find teaspoon equivalents if you don't have a scale.
     
  23. Keith Tapscott.

    Keith Tapscott. Member

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    Perhaps it be it would be better to use the Freestyle Legacy L76 developer as well as Freestyle Legacy L76R replenisher.
    I suspect that Kodak's own D-76R was carefully balanced for their own D-76 developer and not for clones such as Ilford ID-11. The manufacturers own products may differ from published formulas.
     
  24. benjiboy

    benjiboy Subscriber

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    Ilford ID11 is the same formula as Kodak D76
     
  25. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

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    sprint film developer is similar to d76 and from what i remember you can replenish
    with the same stock ... i used to use it deep tank long ago, and replenish that way,
    never a complaint, and they are a great company ... they have saved my skin many a-time.

    john
     
  26. jon.oman

    jon.oman Member

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    Thinking about it now, could someone post the recipe for D-76, the Kodak version to go with the already posted D-76R? You never know when that will disappear as well!