TMAX 400 II - Erwin P. review

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Harry Lime, Apr 30, 2008.

  1. Harry Lime

    Harry Lime Member

    Messages:
    476
    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2005
    Shooter:
    35mm RF
  2. john_s

    john_s Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,103
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2002
    Location:
    Melbourne, A
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    His densities look a bit strange to me:

    Zone III = 0.13
    Zone II = 0.04
    Zone I = 0.01

    He then goes on to say:

    "These values tell you that the film is a true ISO400, but for best shadow results a half stop over exposure would be helpful. Exposing the film as EI=250 will produce a tonal scale that is almost identical to the ideal values of the Ansel Adams Zone System. "

    Am I misremembering, or did AA suggest something like 0.10 for Zone I?
     
  3. Uhner

    Uhner Member

    Messages:
    1,101
    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2006
    Location:
    Oslo, Norway
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Yes, AA advocated 0.10 after subtracting the filmbase-plus-fog density value. The stated densities indicate that he should use an EI of 100.
     
  4. bjorke

    bjorke Member

    Messages:
    2,032
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2003
    Location:
    SF & Surroun
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    hard, poetic, honest and confronting


    (any notion if it treats all developers equally?)
     
  5. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    17,940
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Location:
    Honolulu, Ha
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    You've got to wonder, how many people are using Heiland AM50. Anyone know exactly what kind of developer it is?
     
  6. Paul Verizzo

    Paul Verizzo Member

    Messages:
    1,261
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2008
    Location:
    Sarasota, FL
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Interesting report....

    ...strange density sequence.

    Regardless, I think he makes a good case for the new film being significantly improved.
     
  7. john_s

    john_s Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,103
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2002
    Location:
    Melbourne, A
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Maybe it's a state-of-the-art speed reducing formula?

    To be fair, though, most developers knock a stop off a film's speed if 0.10 is the required Zone_I density.
     
  8. Michael W

    Michael W Member

    Messages:
    1,430
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2005
    Location:
    Sydney
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I've gotta say that Erwin Puts has about as much credibility with me as Ken Rockwell. Blathering online experts.
     
  9. RidingWaves

    RidingWaves Member

    Messages:
    815
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Location:
    Hawaii
    Shooter:
    35mm RF
    Ha! That's pretty funny, testing it in such an obscure developer. "In Comparison with Fujidol, the negs processed in Voightlander 222 seemed a bit soft...Harumph!".

    As well, that shows how obscure it is when you stump the APUGers!

    I actually have done a few rolls, thrown in with other TMY in Xtol. Have not had a chance to print it, but they look nice and sharp, same general tonality but a bit (tiny) denser, so I'll cut my time ~10%.
     
  10. Mick Fagan

    Mick Fagan Subscriber

    Messages:
    3,095
    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2005
    Location:
    Melbourne Au
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    David, Heiland is a processor which takes many film tanks from various manufacturers, holds them with a type of universal clamp, works on mains as well as a 12V car battery.

    AM50 is a developer which I believe is similar to Tetenal Blue.

    Mick.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2008
  11. RidingWaves

    RidingWaves Member

    Messages:
    815
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Location:
    Hawaii
    Shooter:
    35mm RF
    Oh yeah, Tetenal Blue, I'm sure Everybody knows how that works..(teeny sarcasm).

    You'd think he'd try ID-11 or D-76 or even Rodinal. But hey, if he wants to use a variant of an uncommon developer to test his footnote, have fun. Its just not very useful review to most people.

    (In all fairness, I still have some Tetenal Blue in vials, don't know if they are any good still, maybe I'll Test it with some Kodak Plus-X Aerocon...)
     
  12. hka

    hka Member

    Messages:
    2,147
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2004
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    AM 50 is from Amaloco a Dutch company and is a well known developer in Europe.
     
  13. fred

    fred Member

    Messages:
    1,471
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2002
    Location:
    Belgium
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
  14. Sponsored Ad
  15. Mark Antony

    Mark Antony Member

    Messages:
    790
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2007
    Location:
    East Anglia,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Interesting report. I noticed the densities and thought its just a typo.
    AM50 is Pyrocatechine/natrium hydroxide, Amaloco are a small Dutch company. Erwin is Dutch possibly he is a tester or promoter of their wares.
    here is a PDF in Dutch:
    http://www.amaloco.nl/pdf/am50_nl.pdf
     
  16. fschifano

    fschifano Member

    Messages:
    3,216
    Joined:
    May 12, 2003
    Location:
    Valley Strea
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Never mind TMax developer, why not do the test in good old D-76? That's the standard by which all the others are measured, and the developer around which just about every common B&W film is designed.
     
  17. FilmIs4Ever

    FilmIs4Ever Member

    Messages:
    377
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2004
    Location:
    Cleveland, O
    And you think you'd know that ID-11 and D-76 are basically the same thing? Sorry couldn't resist. . . :tongue:
     
  18. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    17,940
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Location:
    Honolulu, Ha
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    It looks like an interesting developer, but not too much like what most people would use for 35mm (it being a Leica-oriented site)--D76/ID11, Xtol, T-max, Microdol-X, Perceptol, Microphen, Rodinal, etc.
     
  19. c6h6o3

    c6h6o3 Member

    Messages:
    3,219
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2002
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    with a godawful lot of fog. especially for such light densities.
     
  20. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    17,940
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Location:
    Honolulu, Ha
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    For users of the developer, does AM 50 produce a lot of background stain?
     
  21. c6h6o3

    c6h6o3 Member

    Messages:
    3,219
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2002
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    it must. Isn't Windisch catechol basically pyrocatechin and NaOH like AM50?
     
  22. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    17,940
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Location:
    Honolulu, Ha
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    It is and just checking the formula in Adams' _The Negative_, it's recommended as a compensating developer to reduce the EI by 50% for good shadow detail while reducing highlight density, which would fit Puts' curve for TMY2 exposed at EI 400.

    Good catch.
     
  23. RidingWaves

    RidingWaves Member

    Messages:
    815
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Location:
    Hawaii
    Shooter:
    35mm RF
    Yes, I know ID-11 and D-76 is the same, I figured since Erwin was WAY over there he'd have more easy access to ID-11 than the American Gold Bag of D-76.
    I still think its an odd choice for a review of a new emulsion.
     
  24. pentaxuser

    pentaxuser Subscriber

    Messages:
    8,195
    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Location:
    Daventry, No
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Interesting article but as Erwin's last sentence says( reading between the lines): "Nice try Kodak but you've wasted your time. Oh and it's APUG R.I.P. or as good as. So it's the usual depressing stuff.

    I'll just have to carry on regardless. The wagons are circled, the end is near and Big John or Ward is saying: " Each man, keep the last two bullets for your woman and then yourself "

    Chivalry was the sworn enemy of women's lib and the cavalry's bugle it's ultimate saviour - discuss

    pentaxuser
     
  25. Kino

    Kino Member

    Messages:
    1,730
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2006
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Another insecure, digital name dropper...
     
  26. john_s

    john_s Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,103
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2002
    Location:
    Melbourne, A
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I found several sites that describe AM50 is being speed reducing, so Erwin's figures make sense. But since the resulting speed is not much better than a 125 speed film, it doesn't make sense to me to use AM50 with a 400 speed film for 35mm use.

    FP4+ in Microphen would probably be faster.

    AM50 is also described as non-staining, which is interesting for a catechol developer. It is supposed to be very sharp, though.

    Is the B+F that Erwin measured (0.23) unusual? I thought that that was about normal for 35mm film.