Toner Question

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Bigpaul, Aug 3, 2009.

  1. Bigpaul

    Bigpaul Member

    Messages:
    34
    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2007
    Location:
    Essex, UK
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Not being very experienced with toning (I've just done a little sepia, which I've been quite pleased with), I'd like a little advice. I've got some Moersch MT-1 Selenium Toner, but unfortunately it has no instructions on the bottle. I'm wondering whether I need to use a separate bleach bath with it? Can't find much info about this particular toner, and I'd appreciate some assistance about how to use it? Thanks!
     
  2. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

    Messages:
    18,139
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    West Midland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Selenium is most commonly used direct with no bleach. It really only gives a significant colour shift with warm tone papers.

    You have to useit ny inspection watching the colour shift and pulling the print out when it's right, ues test strips etc to get an idea of what you want, there's no going back if you leave too long

    Ian
     
  3. RPippin

    RPippin Subscriber

    Messages:
    286
    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2008
    Location:
    Staunton VA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    If you want something fun for toning try Moersch Carbon Toner. Take a slightly over exposed print, bleach in a 1+30 dilution of Moersch Bleach until you start to see detail in the overexposed shadows, pull, rinse thoroughly, and tone in Carbon for 30 sec or so. If you then place in Selenium, after rinsing thoroughly again to remove any trace of toner, just enough to sharpen the blacks, pull and rinse again, I think you will be quite surprised at the richness of the earthy browns and golden tones. This is quite dramatic on FB paper, particularly on Foma paper. I have yet to try Moersch Sulfer Toner, but thats next. Have fun and experiment, experiment, experiment...
     
  4. rjr

    rjr Member

    Messages:
    409
    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2004
    Location:
    Mosel, SW Ge
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Look at Wolfgang´s website, he has published an introduction into using his toners there:

    http://www.moersch-photochemie.de/content/artikel/anleitungen/127

    The thing Rpippin has mentioned can be done with any combination of selenium and sulfur toners, not just the Moersch Carbon (which is a combined selenium+polysulfide toner by itself). I like the resulting color effects myself, they can vary from overly dramatic to making a photographed piece of wood looking really natural.
     
  5. rjr

    rjr Member

    Messages:
    409
    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2004
    Location:
    Mosel, SW Ge
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Ian,

    That´s a very good suggestion. When I know that I´m going to tone a print, I include a contact print of a Stouffer step wedge at the edge. This way it´s easier to visually compare and judge the toned print with an untoned example.
     
  6. RPippin

    RPippin Subscriber

    Messages:
    286
    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2008
    Location:
    Staunton VA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Thanks Roman, I've been looking for an alternative for the Carbon Toner, it's very expensive to buy from Freestyle (about 18US for 100ml). And ordering larger quantity from Germany is expensive to ship to the US. Any suggestions on mixing your own chemicals?
     
  7. rjr

    rjr Member

    Messages:
    409
    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2004
    Location:
    Mosel, SW Ge
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Try and use selenium and polysulfide toners seperately, it should give satisfying results and a bit of more liberty in regard to the desired effects. Moersch´s Carbon toner is IMHO targeted as a replacement of the old Agfa Viradon (not Viradon New) and Kodak´s Poly-Toner, which were combined selenium+polysulfide toner. A german retailer once advertised it "start toning your prints with carbon, the stuff formula one cars are made with". Yikes. :wink:

    Did you reach exhaustion with your Carbon toner? A toned surface of 8m2 isn´t that bad in my opinion.

    Tim Rudman gives a recipe at page 48 of his book, but I myself won´t go into handling selenium powder; Kodak gives a mixing instruction at http://www.kodak.com/global/plugins/acrobat/en/service/chemicals/CIS268.pdf

    I usually tone the print in Selenium, then I wash and bleach it and give it a toning in the Sulfide toner.
     
  8. CBG

    CBG Member

    Messages:
    894
    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Ditto the last poster's mention of Rudman's book. Tim Rudman's Toning book is a great resource for questions like this. If you want to learn about toners, his book is almost the only place to start.
     
  9. Bigpaul

    Bigpaul Member

    Messages:
    34
    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2007
    Location:
    Essex, UK
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Thanks for the replies..........I'll do some experimenting with dilutions/times. The only paper I've tried it on so far is Ilford MGIV FB, and had no noticeable tonal shift at all, so I wondered whether I was doing something very wrong! I'll try it with on some warmtone paper next. Thanks again.
     
  10. Mark Burley

    Mark Burley Member

    Messages:
    659
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2007
    Location:
    Toddington,
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Try it with warmtone and you'll be reaching for the fire extinguisher! Personally I like split toning with sepia and selenium or sepia and gold toner...

    Mark