Toning dried print with selenium?

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by highpeak, May 11, 2005.

  1. highpeak

    highpeak Member

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    I knew it can be done, but my question is do I have to soak it in water before toning?

    Another question is what kind of result can I expect? Is is going to be almost the same as toned right after fixing the print?

    Thanks.

    forgot to add. The paper is ilford multi grade RC.
     
  2. fschifano

    fschifano Member

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    You should wet the print before you tone it. The recommended time is 5 minutes fro fiber based papers, but you should be able to get away with only a couple of minutes for RC paper. The results should be the same as if you'd done it straight from the final wash. Ilford Multigrade is not known for showing a pronounced tone change in selenium, so don't expect too much.
     
  3. ann

    ann Subscriber

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    you do need to soak the print before toning. That is true of any toners and any paper.

    Ilford papers resist shifting color with toning. However, keep a test print that is wet available for comparsion as there will be a change. Depending on the ratio of selenium will effect color shifts


    Selenium should increase the dmax of the print.

    Check Ilford's website for some very good infomration regarding toning.
    You can download a pdf file and print it out for reference.
    They will give you some important information regarding the use of toners; and if you have never used selenium it would be to your advantage to check out their working tips.
     
  4. geraldatwork

    geraldatwork Member

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    I'd wet the print for at least 3 minutes in water before toning. Depending on your strength of toner and time you will see a change although not as much as some other papers. If you are not looking for a major change just deeper blacks I would start with 1+15 for about 3 or 4 minutes and see where that goes. Don't forget to wash/de-hypo the print afterwords.
     
  5. gandolfi

    gandolfi Member

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    just nit picking, but it all depends on how you want to tone!



    and I'v toned several images in selenium without wetting the paper first, and with out any trouble..

    as I have understood this, the wetting is reckommended to ensure an even toning, right from the start. As selenium is so slow, this is not so critical using dry paper..
    but do it to be safe..

    At the end of the toning - after the rinsing in water, I aslo reckommend you to be sure the surface of the paper is clean! the selenium toner (especially if not freshly made) leaves a residue on the surface of the paper.
    IF you dont clean this before drying, this residue will set, and be impossible to remove.. (and it is not pretty to look at..)
     
  6. ann

    ann Subscriber

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    well, i do want to nit pick, and i would personally never tone a dry print.

    But that is my workflow process. Neither do i tone in line, which is also part of my work flow, others have other methods.

    Freshly made selenium? Are you mixing a new batch for each toning session?
     
  7. david b

    david b Member

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    Please list your workflow for selenium toning...
     
  8. donbga

    donbga Member

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    The paper to be toned should be soaked in water prior to toning, especially if you are using a concentrated solution of selenium toner. Additionally if you are toning fiber based paper a small amount of sodium metaborate should be added to the water (1/2 tblspoon per liter) to deacitify the paper from any possible fixer left in the paper which could cause staining to occur.

    I would do the same with RC paper, but since I never use RC I can't really comment on this accurately.

    The type of paper, temperature of the paper developer, the amount of residual fixer and the strength of the toner will have some effect on your results.

    I always mix Kodak selenium toner with distilled water so that it will have a much longer life in the jug allowing it to be reused. I have several different dilutions ranging from 1:4 to 1:20. These dilutions will cause color and contrast changes that vary from paper to paper along with changes in the DMAX of the paper blacks. Weak dilutions of 1:128 will serve to make the paper archival if processed properly after toniing.

    Wash briefly after toning followed by a wash aid and then a final wash. Don't mix hypo clearing agent with the selenium toner. Doing so effectively makes the toner a one shot toner as this mixture isn't stable in the jug.

    BTW, for various reasons I always tone silver gelatin paper after my paper has dried.

    Hope this helps,

    Don Bryant
     
  9. Gary Grenell

    Gary Grenell Member

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    Toning dried prints


    I've just gone back and re-toned a print (Oriental VC cold tone) that is five years old. It had originally been toned in selenium at a weaker dilution and did not yield the tonal shift that I wanted. When I retoned it at a higher concentration (1:12 KRST:tap water) for 7 minutes, I got a much better effect with no undesireable side effects: a very slight hint of purple, and deepening of DMAX.
     
  10. highpeak

    highpeak Member

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    Thanks everybody.

    I will use kodak selenium toner, try it with 1:15 dilution for the test print and then do it on the real thing.

    I just want to see what the toner can do to my print and will try fiber based paper soon. Ordered the toning bood everybody raved for, guess I'll spend more time reading on the sub instead of snooring.