Tri-X 400 expired 1993 - Which ISO?

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by RobertoMiglioli, Nov 22, 2012.

  1. RobertoMiglioli

    RobertoMiglioli Member

    Messages:
    69
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2011
    Location:
    São Paulo, B
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Hello, Guys. I recently was presented with 40 Tri-X 400 35mm expired in 1993. I don´t have much info regarding how they were stored, but I´m almost sure they were not kept frozen. I guess they were stored on a shelf in a garage where room temperature ranged from 5° at winter to 35° at summer. They are in their original packing wrapped in plastic in bricks of twenty.

    My question is: which ISO should I use? I tried some at 400 ISO and images were so faint that barely could be seen.

    Thanks in advance for the help.
     
  2. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

    Messages:
    7,192
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2007
    Location:
    Midwest USA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Send it all to me and I'll test it :smile: ha ha.
    Actually, I suspect it will be pretty fogged and may not be worth the effort. However, to get an exposure index for it, do the simple Zone 1 "exposure index" test.
     
  3. markbarendt

    markbarendt Subscriber

    Messages:
    6,670
    Joined:
    May 18, 2008
    Location:
    Beaverton, O
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Try a roll with a 10 shot set of the same scene with the same lighting. Starting at EI 100 running to 800 in 1/3 stops.

    See if you can get workable prints from each frame.
     
  4. Bill Burk

    Bill Burk Subscriber

    Messages:
    4,610
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2010
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    I'd go as low as 64.... you could take ic-racer up on the offer, he could tell you the speed. So could I for that matter (but I could only offer confidence within 2/3 stop).
     
  5. BoxBrownie

    BoxBrownie Member

    Messages:
    103
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2009
    Location:
    Toowoomba, Q
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I've been using about 20 reels of 35mm trix expired in 1981 and rated it at EI50. It works but is quite fogged but I've no idea how it was kept in the past .
     
  6. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Inactive

    Messages:
    8,093
    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Location:
    Connecticut,
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    ASA 400 - 1 stop per 10 years in good storage conditions...(55° basement to fridge) from normal radiation/aging So...

    ASA400(1993) - EI200(2003) - EI100(2013)

    Now you suspect poor conditions so add another stop and that takes you to EI50

    So 100 to 50 is your range, others said this but I thought I would add some info/reasoning to that.

    I have some tri-x 400 Aero film (aerial film) and did a speed test with 10 frames as mentioned and actually EI25 seemed best, but if I recall it was from the 70's or 80's

    Good luck!


    ~Stone

    The Noteworthy Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1 / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  7. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Inactive

    Messages:
    8,093
    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Location:
    Connecticut,
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    Umm apparently the symbol for "degrees" doesn't translate on the forum, that's what the 55%#$@ whatever it says was suppose to say, 55 degree basement.


    ~Stone

    The Noteworthy Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1 / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  8. wiltw

    wiltw Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,071
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    Location:
    SF Bay area
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    If you simply develop a roll of unexposed film, you will find background fogging!...lowered contrast, in spite of what might have occurred in changes to inherent film sensitivity.
     
  9. summicron1

    summicron1 Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,847
    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2010
    Location:
    Ogden, Utah
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    a couple of years ago i had some tri-x that had expired in 1978 -- i exposed it at asa 400 and developed normally in d-76, 1:1, and it came out a bit base-fogged but otherwise fine, the fog was like a neutral density filter, most of the images scanned just fine.

    so shoot a roll and see what you get.
     
  10. RobertoMiglioli

    RobertoMiglioli Member

    Messages:
    69
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2011
    Location:
    São Paulo, B
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Thank you all, guys. I will try 50 and 25 ISO.

    It´s almost sure I´ll get foggy background so I will try to use it in my favor. Which kind of subjects you think the fogged background would help? Portraits? Night shots?

    On the other hand If I shoot in a really sunny day with high constrasts from light to shadow areas would the foggy background be less noticed?
     
  11. Necator

    Necator Member

    Messages:
    140
    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2008
    Location:
    Broendby, De
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I had a go at some Ilford HP5 (not the plus version), about the same age as your Tri-X. I shot it at 200 ISO, but used the normal 400 ISO development times (d76), and the result turned out fine.
     
  12. RobertoMiglioli

    RobertoMiglioli Member

    Messages:
    69
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2011
    Location:
    São Paulo, B
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Good question, Henrik.

    What about developing? Should I consider as a normal 25 or 50 ISO film? Or should I develop as 400 ISO?
     
  13. markbarendt

    markbarendt Subscriber

    Messages:
    6,670
    Joined:
    May 18, 2008
    Location:
    Beaverton, O
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    After doing exposing a roll at all the possible EI's you might want to try, at normal EI 400 time and temp, and decide which EI gives you the shadow point you want, then shoot a roll at that EI and cut it into 3 or 4 sections for developing.

    The test sections can then be developed one at a time adjusting development to find the best for you.