UN54 regular 8mm movie film developing tips needed

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by studiocarter, Jan 8, 2017.

  1. studiocarter

    studiocarter Member

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    I just had great success processing a 25ft roll of Fomapan R100 in a Lomo UPB1A tank using a reversing kit from Freestyle. It reversed just fine.
    Now I want to develop some Cine-x, UN54, reversed and as negative. Enough was bought to try both methods. Someone told me they use Dektol 1:3 and make negative in 22 degrees C for 6 minuets.
    I want to make neg to print on a old cine printer.
    Please tell what to use, show some clips, thanks.
    I am sending the roll to Gammaraydigital.
    Michael
     
  2. Europan

    Europan Subscriber

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    Only to repeat myself and what others might have said as well: Orwo U(niversal) N(egative) 54 is a grey-base negative film. You will never be able to achieve the full contrast to the lightest parts with such a stock. Fomapan R is the only true black and white reversal film with a colourless base on the market. The second last was Agfa Scala. Eastman-Kodak discontinued their colourless base Ciné black and white films in 1957.
     
  3. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

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    Do you have a splitter?
     
  4. OP
    studiocarter

    studiocarter Member

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    4 sure. One came with each tank and different ones from ebay
     
  5. OP
    studiocarter

    studiocarter Member

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    European, I tried to develop the Fomapan as neg and got a clear film. It is so clear it goes invisible when it is put down. I only did a tiny clip.
     
  6. georgegrosu

    georgegrosu Member

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    http://www.filmotec.de/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/V-I-TI-UN54-e.pdf
    ORWO Universal Negative Film UN 54
    Processing: As Negative Film according to ORWO instruction 1182 (D96) to a recommended average gradient of 0,65 . http://www.filmotec.de/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/V-I-VV-1182-e.pdf
    As Reversal Film according to ORWO instruction 4185 to a gradient of 1,1. http://www.filmotec.de/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/V-I-VV-4185-e.pdf
    It is truly that said European.
    Orwo UN 54 has a big fog (~ negative).
    I use for black and white slide Aviphot Pan 400S PE1.
    It has a little fog under 0.1.
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/21121448@N06/16195263396/in/photostream/
    George
     

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  7. Europan

    Europan Subscriber

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    When you develop Fomapan R(eversal) to a negative, the silver undercoat remains in place. You can’t see anything, the thin silver layer is black. It must be bleached (made soluble) and dissolved out of the film. That’s part of the reversing.

    You can inverse-process negative films. Know that they are not made for this purpose, they contain less silver salts and that in (a) thinner layer(s) generally. Fomapan R is an old-fashioned film with a lot of silver salts in a relatively thick layer. Contrast behaviour is also different: negative films are developed to a gamma log value of 0.6 to 0.7 while a reversible film’s positive image intended for direct projection is processed to a gamma of 1.5 to 1.6.
     
  8. georgegrosu

    georgegrosu Member

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    On any photosensitive material can obtain a photographic image, according to the processing chosen (negative – positive or reversible).
    studiocarter said:
    "I tried to develop the Fomapan as neg and got a clear film. It is so clear it goes invisible when it is put down. I only did a tiny clip."
    Tell us what it the developer and how you processed?
    I hope that your developer to use is a black and white negative developer?

    George
     
  9. OP
    studiocarter

    studiocarter Member

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    George, a short clip was partially exposed, part was covered by my hand. Fomapan kit chemicals were used only in a different order. After exposure, bleach, clear, develop, fix. I guess the bleach eats away the undeveloped but exposed silver halides.
     
  10. georgegrosu

    georgegrosu Member

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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reversal_film
    „Black-and-white transparencies can be made directly with some modern black-and-white films, which normally yield negatives. The negative image is developed but not fixed.
    The negative image is removed by bleaching with a solution of potassium permanganate or potassium dichromate in dilute sulfuric acid, which is removed by washing and a
    clearing bath containing sodium metabisulfite or potassium metabisulfite. The remaining silver halide salts are re-exposed to light, developed and fixed, and the film is washed and dried.”

    Use a developer for black and white negative fim and then rinse it fixed.
    Sure you'll have a negative image.

    George
     
  11. OP
    studiocarter

    studiocarter Member

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    So, I could make a positive black and white 4x5 transparency from negative film? That is cooler than developing in Coffee!
     
  12. georgegrosu

    georgegrosu Member

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    I am not clear what material you want to use to make the positive black and white.
    If you use a black and white negative is likely to have a final density of large fog (~ 0.30).
    Why do you want to use the post the Coffee developer not understand.
    I've never used Coffee, but if used for the development of black and white negative.
    Normal would be to use a positive black and white film with a b&w developer positive.

    George
     
  13. Europan

    Europan Subscriber

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    Of course. There are several appropriate stocks on the market. Ilford, Regent, Adox. Orwo PF 2 is available in sheet formats from several hundred square meters on. Kodak does not think of offering 2302 in more formats. If I had my way there, I’d cut up a jumbo into a number of sizes and spread the word of projection. How beautiful transparencies can be. What is my problem? I once was head of the diathek, what’s the English term, with the seminar for art history at the University of Zürich. There were 80,000 glass slides in the 10 cm by 8,5 cm size; 70,000 in 2" sq., Super Slides, 6 by 6. I am a professional motion-picture film projectionist. At the Dornach theatre that I ran 15 years ago I projected ciné slides, you know 8,5 by 8,5 frames. Something for the eyes
     
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  15. OP
    studiocarter

    studiocarter Member

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    Instead of reversing one negative, a negative could be contact printed to another and make a positive.
    I am trying to print movies.
     
  16. darkroommike

    darkroommike Subscriber

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  17. georgegrosu

    georgegrosu Member

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    You have a printer machine for 8mm?
    If you do not mean that you have serious money will allow a print on 8 mm.
    I found now: service@andecfilm.de.
    I do not see the prices.
    You prepare some pills when came the offer.
    A printer machine for 8mm looks like this:
    http://www.oxberry.com/oxberry1600_page.html
    We had a Oxberry at faculty with 16mm and 35mm projectors.
    Kodak at a laboratory from Hungarians, I remember, have a little Oxberry with 8 mm film.
    There were no price / meter.
    The works make to calculation.
    I think the reversible film is more human version financially.

    George
     
  18. OP
    studiocarter

    studiocarter Member

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  19. OP
    studiocarter

    studiocarter Member

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    All those chemicals make my head swim! Phew! Before I buy bottles of all that I will use Dektol, D76, Fomadon, whatever. Play first.
     
  20. georgegrosu

    georgegrosu Member

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    The printer machine 8/16 mm is a bit old.
    I hope that is functional and maintained.
    I tell you these words because I used in faculty machines from 1960 to 1970.
    It was very difficult to keep them afloat.
    I was a mechanic who worked in cinefilm for 40 years.
    The format is smaller (8 mm) with both problems are more difficult to adjust done.
    On the big screen will be more than any game, failure to appear larger.
    Looking on the film / process my situation is somewhat unclear.
    8mm sample Fomepan R100 looks okay.
    Why do not you want to go on this version?
    Kodak and Orwo produce black and white positive than in 35 or 16 mm format.
    8mm format I can not find it available.
    http://motion.kodak.com/KodakGCG/up...ducts-Price-Catalog-US-Prices-Dec-2016-V5.pdf
    http://www.filmotec.de/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/V-I-TI-PF2-e.pdf

    George
     
  21. OP
    studiocarter

    studiocarter Member

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    George,
    Yes, it is old. I haven't used it since 1999!
    When I get my roll of Fomapan 8mm back from being scanned I will slit it and try to make some prints. Perhaps a print would look acceptable if the same film were used to print on and that reversed. Worth a try. I really think R8 is good to learn with. I was an art teacher so I collected these things to show my students. I like to tinker with them, too. Actual print film has different perf spacing to account for a curved gate. I could get the 16mm version and print that but not R8 I suppose. I scratch film so easily so many ways prints make a lot of sense to me.
    I just contacted Martin Baumgarten who has two printer machines at least, one like mine, and a different one. He is in Plattsburgh NY. super8mm@aol.com He runs a special lab, tiny but mighty. I asked him if he makes prints today.
    Michael
     
  22. fdonadio

    fdonadio Subscriber

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    Kodak still makes Tri-X Reversal in Super-8 format. I am not sure, but I believe they also make it in 16mm.


    Cheers,
    Flavio
     
  23. georgegrosu

    georgegrosu Member

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    Michael, gates of printer are curved to drive continuously printer to compensate pitch differences for negative - positive films.
    For example 35mm film negative is up 4.74 mm (short step) and the positive step is 4.75 mm.
    Negative is the first film and positive is back.
    The crowns which drives the film must not spoil the film perforation.
    Probably you mean the different steps of perforation format 8 mm and super 8 mm.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_8_film#/media/File:8mm_and_super8.png

    George
     
  24. TenSpeed

    TenSpeed Member

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    Where can i get one of these development tanks?
     
  25. georgegrosu

    georgegrosu Member

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  26. TenSpeed

    TenSpeed Member

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