Underexposed Ultramax 400

Discussion in 'Exposure Discussion' started by Truzi, Jun 9, 2013.

  1. Truzi

    Truzi Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,626
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I think I kind of know the answer to this question ("don't worry about it"), but the lighting wasn't very good so I thought I'd ask.

    We rented a cabin Hocking Hills, Ohio, and on an hike my best friend accidentally exposed Ultramax 400 with the camera set to 800. I know one stop isn't a big deal, but we were in a forest with a nice canopy, on a mostly cloudy day, so the lighting was very flat. The pictures were of a dry waterfall with small relief caves in the rock face.
    Here is a link to a photo of the "subject" from the cabin-owners flickr stream, in case it helps:
    http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2703/4258258984_d1078fbb04_z.jpg?zz=1
    Unlike the above photo, there is more cover since it is June and thus the deciduous trees have leaves (plus it's an old photo, so more has grown).

    I'm not quite ready to do C-41 myself and she wants the photos soon (I'm stockpiling my film for when I do C-41). We'll use a local printer that will push and pull in one-stop increments. We don't do walmart, and the printer's prices aren't that far from Walgreen's and CVS - with far better quality.
    The photos aren't that important (if they were, we'd have used different film), but my friend would like viewable prints.

    So, considering the lighting, "one stop push" or "don't worry about it?"
     
  2. Tom1956

    Tom1956 Inactive

    Messages:
    2,057
    Joined:
    May 6, 2013
    Location:
    US
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    1 stop push--my vote.fwiw
     
  3. mablo

    mablo Member

    Messages:
    389
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2009
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Ultramax 400 is a beautiful film but it's really just barely 400 speed. EI200 is much more like it IMO. In flat light I'd definitely push it one stop.
     
  4. Chan Tran

    Chan Tran Member

    Messages:
    2,244
    Joined:
    May 10, 2006
    Location:
    Aurora, IL
    Shooter:
    35mm
    there isn't much latitude in the underexposure side so I say push it 1 stop.
     
  5. Michael R 1974

    Michael R 1974 Subscriber

    Messages:
    6,200
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2010
    Location:
    Montreal, Ca
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Truzi, if the subject contrast was low AND you can tolerate increased graininess, I suppose generally speaking some amount of extra development would help save whatever shadow detail the film recorded. There are always subjective preferences involved here.
     
  6. Truzi

    Truzi Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,626
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I explained the contrast and grain issue to my friend, which she understands and is okay with. She did take issue with how stops are "numbered," though (400 to 800 is "only" 1 stop?). She can work the numbers (shutter and aperture), but I can't explain _why_ things are numbered that way (it involves some math, which is my great failing).
    Unfortunately, my explanations use bad analogies and probably makes things worse. To make a bad analogy about my analogies, it's like using cosine to explain sine - if you don't understand one, it can't be used to illustrate the other.
     
  7. thegman

    thegman Member

    Messages:
    623
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2010
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Shutter speed and ISO works in the same manner though, i.e. doubling the number = 1 stop. 1/500 to 1/1000 is one stop too.
     
  8. Truzi

    Truzi Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,626
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    It's the "why" part of the numbering system that I can't seem to communicate. I understand it, but cannot explain it adequately :smile:
     
  9. Chan Tran

    Chan Tran Member

    Messages:
    2,244
    Joined:
    May 10, 2006
    Location:
    Aurora, IL
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Oh okay you're wondering why the stops, are not spaced by equal amount but rather doubling or half for each step? I think it's because the human eye perceived such a division of steps to be equally spaced. Same thing with sound level.
     
  10. Truzi

    Truzi Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,626
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I like to think of it as needing a certain amount of photons striking the emulsion to give a desired exposure (reaction in the chemistry of the emulsion). If you halve the shutter speed you double the aperture size (whatever combination of settings being manipulated, including the rated ISO of the film, are adjusted in relation to each other to achieve the "balance" desired).

    The numbers themselves come from the math, and that is where I lose it

    My boss in my old position at the university I work was also a professor in the Math department. We joked that no one could let him know how bad I am at math.
     
  11. Mustafa Umut Sarac

    Mustafa Umut Sarac Member

    Messages:
    4,521
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2006
    Location:
    İstanbul
    Shooter:
    35mm RF
    What is sine and cosine ? My math teacher been accident victim and we passed the high school 3 math course empty !
     
  12. Truzi

    Truzi Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,626
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I'm the wrong person to ask :smile: Something to do with math.
     
  13. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

    Messages:
    15,221
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2005
    Location:
    BC, Canada
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I was tempted to post that Umut was sending this thread off on a tangent, but I thought better of it :whistling:.

    This might help a bit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trigonometric_functions