Update on Pyro Plus Paper Developer

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Donald Miller, Jan 3, 2006.

  1. Donald Miller

    Donald Miller Member

    Messages:
    6,242
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    I have recently made the following adjustments to the Pyro Plus Paper Developer. Please let me know how this works for you if you decide to try it.

    750 ml water

    30 grams sodium sulfite

    .34 grams of phenidone A in 20 ml of 91 % alcohol heated to appr. 125 degrees to dissolve

    10 grams catechol

    10 grams pyrogallol

    40 grams of sodium carbonate

    3 1/2 grams of potassium bromide

    5 grams of citric acid

    water to make 1 liter

    (add chemicals in order specified and make sure that each is fully dissolved before adding the subsequent chemical.)

    Developer is used as formulated. I have found, in my experience, that this equals of exceeds my results with Amidol on enlarging paper with a substantial savings in formula cost. I have not tried this with water bath because I am able to reach desired contrast with filter changes.
     
  2. Donald Miller

    Donald Miller Member

    Messages:
    6,242
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    Craig,

    My results with Oriental VCFB indicate a slight warming of the tone with the amount of KBR indicated.

    It does not classify as a warm tone developer a very nice deep black with a hint of brown to the black. The formulation would cool down with a reduction of the KBR.

    The print tone emergence time on a properly exposed print runs about 18 to 25 seconds with Oriental. By comparison, I have found that Dektol or Zone VI developer the tone will emerge at about 50-55 seconds.

    Hopefully Lee Carmichael will weigh in on this too. He has had experience with the developer on Azo.

    Alex Hawley has used a variation of this developer in split developing with Neutal WA and Pyro Plus Paper Developer on Azo. I have not seen his prints using this combination but reports that I have heard are that they are very fine.

    Hope that this helps. Good luck if you decide to give it a try.
     
  3. craigclu

    craigclu Subscriber

    Messages:
    871
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2002
    Location:
    NW Wisconsin
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Donald,

    Could you give us your impression of results you're getting? Warmth, speed, etc?
     
  4. Silverpixels5

    Silverpixels5 Member

    Messages:
    594
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2003
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Thank you Donald.
     
  5. Alex Hawley

    Alex Hawley Member

    Messages:
    2,894
    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2003
    Location:
    Kansas, USA
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    Thanks Don. Yes, I have obtained very good results on Azo with a split bath of Neutol WA and PPPD. I cannot distinguish between Azo prints developed in Amidol and those developed in the split bath method. I have sold several prints to fellow APUG members and they have reported back the same finding, Lee Carmichael and Mateo being most prominent in my mind.

    The variation I use is the original formula with the following changes: 15 grams of catechol, no pyrogallol as Don suggested in his original post; I use 3-5 mal of standard 10% Kbar solution instead of 3 grams Kbar.

    The developing technique starts off with Neutol WA for about 30 seconds, then to a waterbath for 10 to 45 seconds depending on paper grade and contrast level desired. Then into the PAD for 60 seconds. Credit is due to Francisco Cicolli for this developing technique.

    Now the great question is what to do since AGFA is discontinuing its products. I probably have enough to get through most of this year so that gives me some time to determine something. Maybe ANSCO 130?

    With enlarging paper, I have followed the straight original PAD formula. With both enlarging papers and Azo, I see a 1/2 to 1 stop increase in paper speed over other developers including Smith's Amidol formulae. This is nice on a slow enlarging paper like J&C/Forte warmtone. On Azo, I have to reduce the exposure time by about a half stop.

    Don, I'm very satisfied with the original formula and have no compelling reason to change from it at this time. I will try the new formulation as soon as time permits, maybe first on some enlargements. What changes are you seeing over the original formula?
     
  6. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

    Messages:
    3,879
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2004
    Location:
    Southern Cal
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Hi Alex, You can replace the Neutol WA with Ilford ID-78 and obtain excellent results. You can find the ID-78 Recipe in the Apug Chemical Recipes section.
     
  7. Andre R. de Avillez

    Andre R. de Avillez Member

    Messages:
    965
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2004
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I second that suggestion. I use my ID-78 with twice the amount of sulfite the recipee asks for, and dillute it 1:3. It lasts forever with replentishment.
     
  8. Silverpixels5

    Silverpixels5 Member

    Messages:
    594
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2003
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Alex

    If you try Ansco 130, I suggest using the adams version w/o the HQ. At least in my results, i've found that 130 is a lot more controllable w/o the HQ in split developing. Although if you're using the PPPD w/o the Pyro my advice is probably null and void.
     
  9. Sal Santamaura

    Sal Santamaura Member

    Messages:
    1,737
    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    Location:
    San Clemente, California
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    As I posted elsewhere, A&O Group, the German company that purchased AgfaPhoto's minilab and chemical business, has said that it will continue to manufacture and distribute Neutol WA along with Rodinal and other black and white chemicals.
     
  10. Alex Hawley

    Alex Hawley Member

    Messages:
    2,894
    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2003
    Location:
    Kansas, USA
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    WOW, you guys are awesome! Thanks for all the tips in such quick succession.
     
  11. Robert Hall

    Robert Hall Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,047
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2004
    Location:
    Lehi, Utah
    Shooter:
    ULarge Format
    Don, have you tried this with Metol as a replacement for the Phen?
     
  12. lee

    lee Member

    Messages:
    2,913
    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2002
    Location:
    Fort Worth T
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    I am not Don but I have not used PPPD anyway but like the formula was written.

    Just put the phenidone in alcohol and warm it up to about 100 degrees F and it will dissolve.

    lee\c
     
  13. Jim Fitzgerald

    Jim Fitzgerald Member

    Messages:
    1,798
    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2005
    Location:
    Ventura, Ca
    Shooter:
    ULarge Format
    Donald, I love the formula as you have it here. Used it on Azo and Kentmere Bromide grades 2 & 3 and love the look. Thanks for a great formula.

    Jim