Using selenium toner as toning+fixing monobath for Van Dykes?

Discussion in 'Alternative Processes' started by mcilroy, Feb 25, 2014.

  1. mcilroy

    mcilroy Member

    Messages:
    55
    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2010
    Location:
    Germany
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Hi,

    i always wondered if it would be feasible to avoid the additional bleaching of VDB prints in selenium toner by making use of the thiosulfate in the toner itself, and to fix and tone in the same bath.

    Now i stumbled upon an image in Wolfgang Moersch's gallery, where he talks about this: http://www.moersch-photochemie.de/content/galerie/vandyke/17/lang:en

    Although i have no reason not to trust his words, does anyone here happen to process VDBs in this manner and can share some experience?
     
  2. Klainmeister

    Klainmeister Member

    Messages:
    1,492
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2010
    Location:
    Santa Fe, NM
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    I do a standard Thio fix and add 1-2% selenium toner and give it 6-7 minutes. Works great. Here's one for example:

    VDBSelenium.jpg
     
  3. SMBooth

    SMBooth Member

    Messages:
    1,143
    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2008
    Location:
    Melbourne, N
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    It's that sel toner in the fix bath or a separate bath after the fix?
     
  4. Klainmeister

    Klainmeister Member

    Messages:
    1,492
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2010
    Location:
    Santa Fe, NM
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    I mix it directly into the fix bath. Why? Because first off, selenium toners (which already include Thio) will bleach and tone horribly at full strength, but drawn down to 1-2% (which seems like nothing, I know) and mixing it in...never had any issues and you can visibly start seeing changes after 4 minutes or so.

    Another good trick is to use oxalic acid...very low concentration...umm..have to check some data sheets...but a few drops of that into the VD solution during the coating and BAM, increase contrast, speed, and a bit more DMAX.
     
  5. Loris Medici

    Loris Medici Member

    Messages:
    653
    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2005
    Location:
    Istanbul, Tu
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    There's another (stronger) formula which can be used without the aggressive bleaching effect of commercial selenium toners here: http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Kallitype/K002/k002.html. See the section "Selenium Toners". I've tried the second formula (exactly the same as Klainmeister's) with Vandyke but got an ugly yellowish hue which I disliked a lot. The first formula requires that you source pure Selenium, handle with care because it's toxic!

    Regards,
    Loris.
     
  6. mcilroy

    mcilroy Member

    Messages:
    55
    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2010
    Location:
    Germany
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    So at least it seems to bee a common practice to mix toner and fix in one bath.
    Using diluted selenium toner without any additional hypo as a one shot toning/fixing bath as mentioned by Moersch doesn't seem to bee very popular?
     
  7. Klainmeister

    Klainmeister Member

    Messages:
    1,492
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2010
    Location:
    Santa Fe, NM
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    Never tried that particular method so I cant comment. Couldn't hurt to give it a shot!
     
  8. mcilroy

    mcilroy Member

    Messages:
    55
    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2010
    Location:
    Germany
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I made some VDBs in the last days with diluted selemium toner as a single toning and fixing bath. I used 4ml of toner concentrate and 900ml of water for 2 minutes (as per Moersch).
    So far everything seems to work fine, and i can't see any sign of unsufficient fixing (had the prints hanging inside on a sun lit wall). There's also very little to no bleaching. Of course only time will tell if this is an archival approach.

    Here's an example (classic ABC formula, cleared in slightly acidic water, toned and fixed as described above, wahed in plain tap water).

    [​IMG]