I plonked a few old vandykes into Tetenal Gold toner, and I wasn't expecting much... But they toned ! 15 minutes or so in and they turn a more neutral grey-ish. Still 'warm' but quite a different shade of 'dark brown'. The DMax stays more or less the same. So, whats wrong? were my vandykes badly fixed/cleared, or is it perfectly normal ? From my reading I assumed the toning had to be done before fixing -- with the exception of selenium. In any case it gives an interesting option.