Variable contrast Azo paper

Discussion in 'Silver Gelatin Based Emulsion Making & Coating' started by Photo Engineer, Apr 19, 2007.

  1. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    After due deliberation, I have figured out a way to make a variable contrast contact paper similar to grade 2 and 3 Azo.

    My question is this.... Would there be any use for it?

    It would use UV and blue light to get the 2 contrast grades.

    PE
     
  2. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member

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    It sounds like more trouble than it's worth if the range is from grade 2-3. Make it from grades 1-4, and then it starts to sound more interesting.

    On the other hand, if you're coating your own anyway in small quantities, it seems that one could always just coat to the contrast one needs.
     
  3. jgjbowen

    jgjbowen Member

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    PE,

    I want to encourage your work in this area....But, as an Azo user, I have both a blue, Zone VI, cold light and a UV "The Cold One" Azo head. If I had to change heads back and forth in order to vary the contrast, I would probably shoot myself or turn to platinum printing.

    How do we practically change light sources from UV to blue?

    Most Azo users would likely use grade 3 and an waterbath to vary the contrast from grade 2 to grade 3. We as a group would probably much prefer a straight grade 3 and a grade 4.
     
  4. Scott Peters

    Scott Peters Member

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    Not necessary....just grade 3 with water bath is acceptable to get down to lower grades. Grade 4 would be nice to have around for those rare occassions though....

    Changing lights seems like more trouble than its worth. I wonder how the azo testing is going......
     
  5. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    The light could be a mixture of UV and visible (Blue) with a UV filter that moves in and out of the beam and a yellow filter to vary the UV content vs Blue content.

    With some thought, I think I could make a grade 1 - 4 but it would be a LOT harder, so you can comment on that as well. I have made both extremes of paper so it is not impossible.

    As for Azo, that is a Kodak trademark so testing of Azo is not what we should be asking. Lodima is a trademark of M&P and I am calling mine an "Azo Like" paper. AFAIK, you have to look to M&P or any of their authorized test individuals for comment. Last I heard, their tests were going poorly as read from their web site.

    From my reading of Michaels own account, I don't think it is possible for them to make a usable Azo type paper from their current formula. I've commented on that before here on APUG. I do wish them well though. However, I have no idea of the capability of the engineers they have hired to do this job.

    PE
     
  6. rmazzullo

    rmazzullo Member

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    UV and Blue light sources...

    Hello all,

    You can get UV LEDs and Blue LEDs very cheaply nowadays, and can create rows or banks of each in the same "lamp head", and switch the rows on or off as needed, to vary the mix of UV and Blue. (There are even different shades of blue, depending on where you get them from. Solid state, and instant on / off. The only caveat is that you cannot look into the UV light.

    It might be possible to 'dim' one side or the other as needed, but there is some extra circuitry (not hard to build) that might be required to do this.

    Thanks,

    Bob
     
  7. Scott Peters

    Scott Peters Member

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    Ok, grade three then for A_O like paper...hopefully we will hear about the 'new A_O / Lodima testing soon.
     
  8. Shawn Dougherty

    Shawn Dougherty Subscriber

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    Speak for yourself man, grade 2 is a must. Shawn
     
  9. skillian

    skillian Subscriber

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    What difference does any of this make unless this paper can be commercially produced? Maybe it's easier to hand-coat than it sounds, but all this talk about silver chloride papers that I can't have is like giving me a case of "Azo blue balls".
     
  10. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Scott;

    Try imagining it being commercially produced and then re-post.

    Thanks.

    PE
     
  11. skillian

    skillian Subscriber

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    I've been imaging it since Azo was discontinued, but Lodima isn't here yet and the last time I read one of your threads, you said you weren't interested in making anyting commercially available. Did I miss something since then?
     
  12. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Scott;

    You missed nothing. I'm merely gathering information before doing experiments. I'm trying to determine the utility of a material, and I cannot do it unless I get answers to the question.

    As for Lodima, I am sorry about the situation, but I can say that the wait will probably be a long one. It has already been what? About 2 years? I wish you the best.

    PE
     
  13. Jim Fitzgerald

    Jim Fitzgerald Member

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    Ron, I for one would be very interrested in it!

    Jim
     
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  15. Scott Peters

    Scott Peters Member

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    Well, if it is commercially produced then I would be interested and could work around the "lighting" to get the variable grades. Can you shed some light on the commercially produced aspect? what exactly do you mean? thanks.
     
  16. juan

    juan Subscriber

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    I would be interested in it, whether hand coated or commercially available.
    juan
     
  17. rmazzullo

    rmazzullo Member

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    I guess this almost goes without saying, but I am interested, too.

    Bob M.
     
  18. Peter Schrager

    Peter Schrager Subscriber

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    recipes

    Ron-I can't find the recipes here on APUG you mentioned....where do I look??
    Peter
     
  19. ilya1963

    ilya1963 Subscriber

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    Azo is veriable contrast
    I could practicly go from grade two to grade four with the same sheet of paper developed in Amidol , it litteraly has no end ...

    Just my experience ...

    ILYA
     
  20. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Scott;

    I've never discussed commercially producing any of my emulsions here on APUG. I am not currently engaged in doing work towards that. I may someday, but that is not for me to determine. I don't have any facilities for commercial production, nor do I plan on buying or building any.

    PE
     
  21. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Peter, the formulas published here are in this forum in another thread. You actually made this formula in the Workshop and took pictures with it, albeit with some 'improvements'.

    Ron
     
  22. Scott Peters

    Scott Peters Member

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    I am confused...as you told us to imagine it being commercially produced? how easy will this be to achieve? Is it coating formulas, or prepackaged coating? Or is it actual paper with the coating? Thanks.
     
  23. Photo Engineer

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    Scott;

    For the purposes of seeing if this concept has any use at all, I cannot judge it based on rejection because it is not commercially produced or producable. I want an answer as to the utility of the concept. I never said I would produce it, I said I would like to take production out of the equation by imagining it is commercially feasible. Then you can get past the making and coating by hand problem and just judge the idea on its merits.

    That is a concept often used in R&D to test new theoretical products. If we were to find a huge huge market for such a product, I'll bet M&P would perk their ears up, but if no one is interested, then they nor would anyone show interest. Therefore we test things by imagining or hypothesizing scenarios.

    I'm not going to even develop a hand coating method if no one is interested in the concept at all. You see?

    You have to daydream sometimes to come up with novel things. There were about 2000 researchers in KRL. Not all of them were 'inventors'. Many were great doers or thinkers. One of the foremost inventors was Grant Haist. Others include Howard James, C E K Mees, Bunny Hanson, Paul Vittum and Paul Gilman to name a few. So, stretch your imagination. Imagine this idea is a product (it is not nor are plans to make it there). Then ask yourself "could I use it?" and then give an answer based on imagination.

    In a sense, I'm sharing an Idea Memorandum with all on APUG. (see my post on patents). If it falls flat it is done but if there is interest, it will go on to become an "Invention Report". Even then, it may only be something I teach to my students, and not something ever ever manufactured.

    PE
     
  24. Scott Peters

    Scott Peters Member

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    Ok, assuming it is a gelatin I use to coat, yes, I would use it. Thanks.
     
  25. zone6

    zone6 Member

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    me too
     
  26. maxbloom

    maxbloom Member

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    One one hand, I'd kill for something like a grade 1-4 VC Azo. Proper split-filter printing would be nearly limitless...it would be orgasmic, really.

    On the other hand, the light sources are a terrible pain in the ass.