Viscocity of TEA

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Tony-S, Aug 24, 2011.

  1. Tony-S

    Tony-S Member

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    I just made some 510-PYRO (TEA 75 ml, ascorbic acid 5 g, pyrogallol, 10 g, phenidone 0.25 g, TEA to 100 ml) but it's difficult getting it into solution. The TEA is extremely viscous - is this expected? Is there something I need to do to get the powdered components into solution?
     
  2. Tony-S

    Tony-S Member

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    The answer appears to be microwave it for 1 min then swirl like mad for an hour. I hope to try it out tonight.
     
  3. mikebarger

    mikebarger Subscriber

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    A little heat goes a long way. Once you warm it up to 150 degrees it will mix easily. I do it on the stove top.

    Mike
     
  4. ntenny

    ntenny Member

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    I've used a hot-water bath. It seems a little less peril-fraught than the microwave to me.

    Any way you slice it, it takes a while to dissolve ascorbic acid in TEA, though. Not sure about the phenidone---I keep mine in a stock solution in glycol.

    -NT
     
  5. Tony-S

    Tony-S Member

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    So glycol can be used in place of TEA? I'll keep that in mind for next time. At any rate, it looks good so far with a roll of Acros that I just developed. I know the benefits of this developer, but are there any bad things to look out for?
     
  6. mhcfires

    mhcfires Subscriber

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    I had no problems dissolving the ascorbic acid or the phenidone in the warmed TEA. It takes a few minutes, but it does all dissolve.
     
  7. Tony-S

    Tony-S Member

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    Well, it seems to work!
     

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  8. tony lockerbie

    tony lockerbie Subscriber

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    Yes, the first time I tried it I thought WTF! Warmed the Tea in a hot water bath and just stirred and stirred, and you still could see suspended particles, but they seem to have been absorbed over time.
     
  9. M. Lointain

    M. Lointain Member

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    I have never been a fan of TEA. My experience is that solutions with it don't hold up well over time. I have had solutions oxidate within a short time with TEA. I generally prefer Propylene Glycol if longevity is your goal. Glycol doesn't work with all developing agents, but it does with most. You can easily make a second component with any other base than TEA. Overall I think that is the best strategy.
     
  10. jochen

    jochen Member

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    If you have difficulties with dissolving the ingredients in TEA and you want to take propylenglycol instead, please remember that the TEA is not only the solvent but also the alkaline component. So it cannot simply be left out.
     
  11. P C Headland

    P C Headland Subscriber

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    I've got a partial bottle of PC-TEA mixed over three year ago, and the stuff still works as good as the day I mixed it. It has gone from a light straw colour to dark brown (just like Rodinal, only thicker), but that seems to be the only change.
     
  12. ntenny

    ntenny Member

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    They can't be substituted straight across, for pH reasons; I just keep my stock of phenidone in solution in propylene glycol, for easier mixing. I'm pretty sure the amount of glycol introduced into the developer as a result isn't an important difference.

    -NT
     
  13. Tony-S

    Tony-S Member

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    Ok, I'll keep using TEA. Thanks for the tips.
     
  14. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

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    Whether your formula calls for TEA or glycol the key is patience. Eventually everything will go into solution. I have found that these developers keep better if they are not heated to too high a temperature. Everything should dissolve even at room temperature, just takes longer.
     
  15. juan

    juan Subscriber

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    Glycol is merely a preservative - TEA, in 510-Pyro, is both a preservative (in stock solution) and the accelerator when mixed with water to the working dilution. They are not substitutes for one another.
    juan
     
  16. mikebarger

    mikebarger Subscriber

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    What film, dilution level, time. temp did you use? Looks like you got it nailed.

    Mike
     
  17. Tony-S

    Tony-S Member

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    Straight from the MDC: 1+100, 7 min, 70 F.