WarmTone Paper and Warmtone developer

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by padraigm, Aug 9, 2011.

  1. padraigm

    padraigm Member

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    I have recently been warming up to warmtone papers :smile: and have been playing around with Ilford WT, Foma WT and Oriental WT. I had never used a warmtone developer in the past so a few nights ago I purchased some Zonal pro HQ warm tone and my standard developer Dextol and chose one negative for a comparison across two developers and different papers. My goal was to settle on one WT paper and get to know it well. My regular paper(at the moment) is Arista edu (Foma). I printed each of the four different papers(test strips for each one) as close as I could with Dextol and Zonal pro HQ. I hung all eight prints in a row and evaluated both wet and then dry, and I was quite surprised at the results.

    All warmtone papers gave a similar tone and the surprising part was I could not really tell the difference between Dextol or Zonal Pro HQ. If fact, I was probably convincing myself that one had to be warmer than the other.
    The Arista edu was the coldest in Dextol as expected, but that paper with Zonal pro was definitely warmer and almost identical to the warmtone papers.
    Oriental, and Foma WT gave a gritter print when compared with Ilford WT. So I am still not sure which I prefer.

    So in summary, it didn't make any real difference(in my use) using Dextol or warmtone developer (at least this one) on a warmtone paper.

    I would be interested in hearing other thoughts.

    Thanks
     
  2. tkamiya

    tkamiya Member

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    I did some playing around with Ilford MGIV neutral and warm tone just recently. I also bought the Ilford's WT developer. I usually use Dektol.

    To me the real difference was how well WT combinations took toning. If I tone Sepia or brown, for example, regular paper with Dektol combination produces slight change in color to darkish brownish, purplish, something. Not quite attractive in my mind. When I did the same with WT, it obviously shifted color to warm brown.

    I agree with you, without toning, the difference is almost unnoticeable.
     
  3. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    I only use warm tone papers and developers and the variations are very substantial.

    You need to learn that the colour/warmth of tone are controlled by exposure and development time, also dilution. The more development the colder the tones so for greater warmth you over expose and under develop. To counteract short dev times you can use greater dilution.

    Warm tone apers vary enormously, some would give red tones with greater exposure and long development in a dilute warm tone developer. also papers get colder with age, so the fresher the better for warmth.

    Choice of developer is crucial Dektol is a cold toned developer and a warm tone developer like ID-78/Ilford Warmtone or Agfa Neutol WA gives very different tyones used properly.

    Ian
     
  4. jeffreyg

    jeffreyg Subscriber

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    I tried Ilford MGIV WT with Dektol as well. It is a very nice paper but not a big difference from MGIV neutral. Years ago Agfa had a paper called Portriga Rapid that gave really nice warm tones with Decktol and Selectol Soft.

    http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/
     
  5. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    You can't expect warm tones if you use a Cold tone developer with na warm tone paper, it's an oxymoron.

    The old Portiga used Cadmium which was banned a few years ago papers with Cadium in behaved slightly differently.

    Ian
     
  6. padraigm

    padraigm Member

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    Well I am definitely getting warm tones using Dextol with warm tone paper, but my point is using a warm tone developer with the same paper made an almost indistinguishable difference from the dektol under the conditions I used which surprised me. My next step is to evaluate them all after selenium toning. I know Oriental can shift tone quite a bit and ilford not so much. I am not sure I will spend the time over exposing and under developing to get a more warm tone. I am just surprised there was not more of a difference doing straight prints.

    Thank you for all the responses, I learn more and more everyday from here.
     
  7. Nicholas Lindan

    Nicholas Lindan Advertiser Advertiser

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    To get warmer tones try diluting the developer (a lot, start with 2-3x normal dilution), extending the developing time (2x or more) and increasing the exposure (as needed). You will have to play around, but it is possible to get almost sepia-like tones.
     
  8. joefreeman

    joefreeman Member

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    if memory serves; drying the paper with heat will give warmer tones (and more gloss). and it's already been said, but i want to further emphasize; shorter development times and higher dilutions and lower temps make a significant difference. just pay attention to the strength of the blacks.
     
  9. thora

    thora Member

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    I have a problem getting real deep black with warm tone developer.

    I tried a selenium toner bath after watering: The black is back - even in warm tone developer. The problem: the warm tone is mostly going away. But with a dilution 1+9 selenium toner for only 20 Seconds (not more) I get a good balance between a nice warm tone and real deep black.
     
  10. Dan Dozer

    Dan Dozer Subscriber

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    I normally use Ilford MGFB warmtone with Ansco 130 developer. However, recently I tried 106 warm tone developer and LPD developer. The 106 defnintely took the whites of the paper to a creamier color, but I didn't really like it, The LPD changed the white only barely. One thing that the LPD developer says is that by diluting the developer, you change the tones (and can go to very warm), but not the contrast of the image. I haven't tried diluting the LPD yet, but if you want try a developer that is supposed to give you more options, you might want to try it.
     
  11. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    A warm tone print doesn't usually have a really deep black, the Dmax isn't usually as high.

    Often an untoned warm tone print has a greenish clour, selenium toning turns this redder giving a rich warm tone, it's a matter or personal choice and percetion. You can think initially that the selenium has killed the warmth if you compare an untoned warmtone print to one selenium toned, but when you compare to a cold toned bromide print the difference is very significant.

    Compare this to the wedge
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Ian
     
  12. joefreeman

    joefreeman Member

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    Ian, I definately have to disagree with you. Both ilford and oriental wt papers have some of the blackest blacks you'll be likely to see.
     
  13. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    That depends on how you process them, yes they can have but not when you increase the warmth with development controls.

    It's a matter of perception if you blue tone a print you get a maximum deep blue colour, that's not close to thee best possible Dmax but it's relative to the rest of the blue tones.

    So a warm tone print with a deep brown Dmax still has good visual impact but if you measued the Dmax it's less than the max obtainable with a cold tone developer given full development.

    Ian
     
  14. L Gebhardt

    L Gebhardt Subscriber

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    Ilford Warm Tone used to come on a cream colored base, which really accentuated the warmth of the image. The newer stuff seems to come on the same white base as the MGIV paper. I don't know about the other papers you tested.

    As other's have mentioned it is possible to adjust the image tone with development (over expose and shorter development in a warm tone developer). But I have found that to get a really dark black and a warm toned image on Ilford paper the best results are with the Warm Tone. I just wish they would bring back the old paper base.

    Also, well seasoned Ansco 130 developer tends to color the paper base a tiny bit, and gives a slightly warm tint.
     
  15. Nicholas Lindan

    Nicholas Lindan Advertiser Advertiser

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    The blackest of blacks can not be seen. But I digress...

    Ilford WT can hit 2.5 OD reflectance without much prodding.
     
  16. PhotoBob

    PhotoBob Subscriber

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    Thank you I really appreciate this forum and all the input :smile: