water/stabilizer spots?

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by srmcnamara, Oct 3, 2009.

  1. srmcnamara

    srmcnamara Member

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    so I just developed C-41 film for the first time with the Tetenal C-41 Press Kit.

    The negatives look great as far as density goes. One problem however is that I have TONS of little circles all over the base side of the film.

    I've never had anything of this magnitude happen with black and white. Is there a way to get rid of the spots? rewash and restabilize?

    They are 4x5 negatives 160s processed in the Combiplan tank. I'll try to take a photo of the spots tomorrow when there's daylight. In the meantime, here's a photo on the light table.


    [​IMG]
     
  2. srmcnamara

    srmcnamara Member

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    any help?

    would rewashing be harmful? helpful? futile?
     
  3. DanielStone

    DanielStone Member

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    do the spots look like hard water spots, or mineral deposits due to insufficient stabilization? How long did you stabilize? Also, did you constantly agitate the tank during the stabilization step, I've found that if i agitate for the 1st 30 seconds, then let it sit still for another minute, usually no water spots to be found, even with sheet film.

    can you post a shot of the film (just one sheet) without being backlit, so we can see the spots without having to try to guess where they are? thanks. its just that its kind of hard to distinguish where they are


    -Dan
     
  4. srmcnamara

    srmcnamara Member

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    yeah

    [​IMG]

    I just followed the instructions on the insert and agitated for 15s and let sit for another 15s. From what you've just said this must be way too short.
     
  5. srmcnamara

    srmcnamara Member

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    Also, I never wiped off the water before I hung it up to dry. I don't usually do this with B&W but it will probably help here.
     
  6. DanielStone

    DanielStone Member

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    do you have hard water in your area?

    yes, kodak recommends 1:30 for stabilization, 30s initial agitation, and sitting still for the remaining minute.

    try a(1) sheet, re-wash, and re-stabilize, with this timing. just one sheet (make sure its the one you don't like the most)


    here's the link to the Kodak C-41 processing pdf. read it thoroughly, there's lots of good info in there! :D

    http://www.kodak.com/global/plugins/acrobat/en/service/Zmanuals/z131_03.pdf

    best of luck, please let us know of how that test sheet comes out.

    Ohh... btw, I DO NOT SQUEEGEE! I just gently nudge the bubbles off of the film before hanging it up to dry. I personally(my way, try it if you want) let the film drip for a bit before putting the heater on(in a film dryer). I've found that I get better results, and cleaner too, this way. You might want to try just letting it dry in ambient temperatures. Shouldn't take too long, maybe 1-3 hours. Enough time for some tv or a movie :smile:, yardwork in my case(for b/w) :smile:

    -Dan
     
  7. hrst

    hrst Member

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    I've found that these mineral stains (drying marks) in the base side can be carefully rubbed away with a dry microfiber cloth after the film has completely dried. Of course there's a risk to scratch the film so be careful and use a clean microfiber cloth. The drying marks should be avoided in the first place (eg. by making the stabilizer in distilled/demineralized water), but I still get them every now and then.
     
  8. tiberiustibz

    tiberiustibz Member

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    You can try rubbing them away but so far for me that has caused a 100% scratch probability. FYI The stabilizer in the tetenal press kit DOES NOT CONTAIN A SURFACTANT LIKE PHOTO FLO. You must add this to reduce drying marks. I also would recommend using distilled water to mix your stabilizer. The formula would be the stabilizer powder plus whatever you use for normal photo flo in distilled water. If you can find some Kodak Final Rinse I would use that instead, diluting 9ml of concentrate to 1 liter distilled water. The final liquid to touch the film must be a color film stabilizer of some sort. Don't just use photo flo.

    Rewashing and stabilizing will be most effective but without adding photo flo to the stabilizer you'll just get more marks.
     
  9. naugastyle

    naugastyle Member

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    If you're using the regular Tetenal liquid kit, does it help (or hurt) to also give it a dunk in photo-flo after stabilizing?
     
  10. DanielStone

    DanielStone Member

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    don't dunk in photo flo, as per instructed to me by Photo Engineer.

    being that there is none (maybe a super small amount) of silver metal left in the emulsion, the bleach "bleaches" out the excess silver during that step, all that is left is dyes that are great food for fungi and bugs. so if you undue the stabilizer step, you are basically removing your film's barrier to the elements/nasties.

    get this stuff on ebay to be frank. use it in place of the Tetenal kits' stablizer. the name is different, its just that the Final Rinse is optimized for films(at least Kodak C-41 films) made after 2005. the dyes changed, and the new ones are best used with the Final Rinse vs Stabilizer.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Kodak-Flexicolo...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item53de274ce0
    -Dan

    EDIT: this one as well, Buy it Now

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Kodak-Flexicolo...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a548976cb
     
  11. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Do NOT place color film into any water or other bath after the stabilzer or final rinse bath! This is necessary!!! I cannot stress it enough.

    You can gently squegee your film however, with a soft sponge or cloth soaked in stabilzer or final rinse!

    PE
     
  12. naugastyle

    naugastyle Member

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    Interesting, because supposedly when negatives don't look blixed enough you're supposed to re-do and rinse. Nothing about re-doing stabilizer, which I had definitely wondered about.

    Other than the films that needed to be re-bleached/fixed, I haven't done anything after stabilizer. The foaminess just made me wonder, though. Maybe I'll try the soaked-cloth squeegee method.
     
  13. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Please reread my other posts on this sujbect then.

    If negatives do not look good due to bleach and/or fix then redo the ENTIRE tail end. That is: Bleach-wash-Fix-wash-Final Rinse or Stabilzer.

    You must NEVER redo just one step in the tail end of a color process. You have to complete the entire cycle from where you enter it. After all, rebleaching does nothing if you don't refix, and you must wash and stabilize.

    PE
     
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  15. cbphoto

    cbphoto Member

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    Bringing back an old thread, because I just had the same experience with the same basic Tetenal press kit (although I've never seen better negs of my work...even from pro dip-n-dunk labs). Did we conclude that distilled water does indeed solve the problem, or is the supplemental final rinse stuff necessary?
     
  16. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    The final rinse or stabizer is ABSOLUTELY necessary for proper image stability.

    PE
     
  17. cbphoto

    cbphoto Member

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    I meant in addition to or in place of the kit stabilizer
     
  18. cbphoto

    cbphoto Member

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    What do you do to remove the water spots that have already occurred after processing in the Tetenal kit? Can I restabilize in a different brand of stabilizer? Can I just use regular film cleaner, as it looks like the spots are all on the base side?
     
  19. Photo Engineer

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    Rewash and stabilize is the only treatment that is non-damaging. You might try wiping with a very soft sponge wetted with stabilzer. The stabilzer should be the type that contains Photo Flo or the equivalent as one ingredient. Mixing it with Distilled Water might help.

    PE
     
  20. cbphoto

    cbphoto Member

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    Thanks. I'll pick some Kodak stuff on Monday.
     
  21. JSebrof

    JSebrof Member

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    Can you reuse a batch of c41 final rinse, and if so for how long? (# of films, length of time)
     
  22. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Yes, it can be reused. There is a capacity figure on the Kodak web site.

    PE
     
  23. cbphoto

    cbphoto Member

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    The Kodak stuff worked perfectly. I got this: http://www.adorama.com/KKFCSRG.html. It does not say "stabilizer" on the bottle (despite the Adorama description), rather "final rinse/replenisher" . Is it the same thing, and can it be used by itself without any additional stabilizer product?
     
  24. Photo Engineer

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    Kodak had 2 products. The stabilizer was for products before about 2000 and the final rinse for products after about that date. I don't remember the exact cutoff. You can use Stabilizer for all products, but the Final Rinse can only be used with products after that date. If you use it with earlier products, they are subject to greater fade during keeping.

    PE
     
  25. cbphoto

    cbphoto Member

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    What about using it on fresh Fuji Superia and pro films?
     
  26. Photo Engineer

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    Current Fuji films and Kodak films work with each other's final rinse or stabilzer. Older films from both companies will not work with current final rinses from either company and give the best result.

    PE