Wavy line on delta 3200

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by mrtoml, Sep 22, 2008.

  1. mrtoml

    mrtoml Member

    Messages:
    548
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2005
    Location:
    Sheffield, U
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Has anyone seen anything like this? I just developed 2 rolls of 120 delta 3200 in the same tank taken on the same day with the same camera. One of the rolls has this dark wavy line about 1cm wide line running intermittently along the whole length of the roll from one end to the other in an irregular sinusoidal pattern. Is this a film defect or has something else happened. I have never seen anything like this before.

    I have attached a scan of one end of the roll and a few other frames. You can see where the line starts. It runs right to the other end through all the images ruining the entire roll.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  2. tjaded

    tjaded Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,022
    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2006
    Location:
    San Francisc
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    X-Ray. Your film was exposed to x-rays at some point. Did you travel or buy your film via mail order?
     
  3. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

    Messages:
    17,516
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    West Midland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    There's one flaw to that theory, this is the negative so the fogging would be the reverse - evenly fogged overall and then a light wavey line where something shielded the film from the X-rays.

    It may be caused by an led or something similar in the darkroom, or it might be a fault.

    Ian
     
  4. mrtoml

    mrtoml Member

    Messages:
    548
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2005
    Location:
    Sheffield, U
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    FWIW both rolls came from the same batch of film and both have indeed been through XRay machines in the same bag (via carry-on baggage a couple of times). This is the first film from that batch that has shown this issue. The others have all been fine though I haven't developed every roll yet. Both were put on the reels in the same changing bag at the same time. The camera was a Mamiya 7ii.
     
  5. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

    Messages:
    17,516
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    West Midland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I have to admit I'm wrong. Go see this link, it is X-ray damage. It's very unlikely to have happened at a UK Airport because all the BAA Airports upgraded early this years and the carry-on baggage scanners are totally safe, and have been for a few years now.

    Some airports aren't as safe for high speed films 100 ISO upwards, and countries like the US use slightly different machines to the UK which they don't claim are safe.

    Ian
     
  6. mrtoml

    mrtoml Member

    Messages:
    548
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2005
    Location:
    Sheffield, U
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Thanks Ian. Looks like it was the CAT type X-Ray machine. They obviously zoomed in on this roll which is why the others appear to be unaffected. The airport was Malta by the way.

    Cheers
    Mark
     
  7. ooze

    ooze Member

    Messages:
    367
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2004
    Location:
    Istanbul, Tu
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I had exactly the same pattern on two rolls of 120 FP4+ a few years ago. The film was bought in the UK, exposed in Turkey and developed back in the UK. All other exposed film was fine. I've always thought it must have been X-ray but was never sure...now I know better.

    So, these guys can "zoom" in on any part of the screen, i.e. raise power levels selectively???

    From now on I shall explicitly state that the bag contains film.

    Cheers,
    omar
     
  8. mrtoml

    mrtoml Member

    Messages:
    548
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2005
    Location:
    Sheffield, U
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Yes. Apparently with some types of Xray machine they scan the whole bag with a low dose of XRay and then if they see anything that needs a closer look they can zoom in on it and increase the radiation levels. This is what causes the wavy lines. It's described in the link Ian posted.

    I didn't know about this and will be much more careful in future. The idea that Xray machines are all now safe with respect to film is not true.
     
  9. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

    Messages:
    17,516
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    West Midland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    You've been very unlucky Mark, I had some my films scanned at least 8 times three weeks ago with no problems at all. They'd already been scanned at Manchester Airport. The Italian made scanners on the Cruise ship had a very clear Manufacturers labels stating "Film safe".

    Ian
     
  10. mrtoml

    mrtoml Member

    Messages:
    548
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2005
    Location:
    Sheffield, U
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I agree that I have been unlucky. This is the first time I have ever encountered a problem. My big problem now is what to do with the other rolls that went through the machine, but have not been used. I guess I will just have to chuck them. I also still have a large batch of exposed film that went through so some of these may also be affected, but hopefully they will be mostly OK.

    Oh well...
     
  11. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

    Messages:
    17,516
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    West Midland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    It'll cost you little to process the rest of the films, but it's not worth risking the unexposed films for anything serious. If they are slower speed they ahve far greater chance of being OK.

    Ian
     
  12. mrtoml

    mrtoml Member

    Messages:
    548
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2005
    Location:
    Sheffield, U
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I developed another 10 rolls from this batch today and not one of them has the X-ray damage. So I guess the selective zooming was very focussed. Still have 11 more rolls to go though.
     
  13. eng1er

    eng1er Subscriber

    Messages:
    105
    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2008
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    With 120, since there's no metal, I just stuff it in my pockets and go through the metal detector. That way, no x-ray exposure and I don't have to explain what it is and why it can't go through x-ray to some McDonalds reject who works for TSA. Of course anything more than 6-10 rolls (depending on how many pockets I have) and that gets a little tricky.
     
  14. mrtoml

    mrtoml Member

    Messages:
    548
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2005
    Location:
    Sheffield, U
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Well I think I would have had a problem as I had about 50 rolls of 120 and 20 35mm :wink: Maybe I should get a large hat.