Wavy scratches on base side of Ilford HP5+ 120

Discussion in '[Partner] ILFORD PHOTO' started by nevsky187, Sep 30, 2013.

  1. nevsky187

    nevsky187 Member

    Messages:
    8
    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2011
    Shooter:
    35mm
    I developed a roll of 120 HP5+ only to see, to my horror, a number of small, wavy scratches on the base side of the film. As this is the side of the film which is protected by the backing paper, it's clearly not the camera. Also, I shot different brands of film before and after this roll; no scratches on those. I've seen references to this on other forums and in other forum posts here. This is clearly Ilford's problem. They are NOT drying marks. What the heck, Ilford?
     
  2. Regular Rod

    Regular Rod Member

    Messages:
    671
    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2012
    Location:
    Derbyshire
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Have you used a squeegee or maybe your fingers to squeegee the film before hanging it up to dry?

    RR
     
  3. nevsky187

    nevsky187 Member

    Messages:
    8
    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2011
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Again, this is not a drying issue. I did not squeegee the film. If I had, the scratches would have been straight lines, and not very regular scratches in ascending and descending waves of exactly the same radius across the entire length of the film. They are too regular to have been made in any way but as part of a mechanical process of some kind. Another user of the same film noticed the same issue and reported it here, and Ilford denied that it was a manufacturing issue in that case, but it MUST BE a manufacturing issue.
     
  4. railwayman3

    railwayman3 Member

    Messages:
    2,025
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2008
    Shooter:
    35mm
    The film is handled by the user during loading into the tank reel, so I don't think it's necessarily a manufacturing issue ? I've scratched film myself when I first started to process my own, particularly when struggling with stainless steel reels! Still have the very occasional film which gives trouble, for no apparent reason.
     
  5. AgX

    AgX Member

    Messages:
    11,904
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2007
    Location:
    Germany
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    But can you imagine a user's fault to produce a regular pattern as described?
     
  6. nevsky187

    nevsky187 Member

    Messages:
    8
    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2011
    Shooter:
    35mm
  7. railwayman3

    railwayman3 Member

    Messages:
    2,025
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2008
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Possibly, if the film were removed from the backing paper and somehow pulled tightly in a roll, or rubbed over the edge of a rough surface during loading onto the spiral. Or even when removing from the spiral after processing. I have had very similar "user faults" when I first tried to process my own films many years ago.

    It is often possible to see tiny scratches on any smooth or polished surface by reflected light which otherwise give no problems (e.g. cleaning scratches on lens surfaces which have no effect on transmitted light). I have handling scratches on quite a few of my older negatives, even after I'd realised the need for more care. Particularly when I used to store films in a roll.

    Not suggesting that it is the OP's fault, but it seems harsh to find the manufacturer guilty without giving them the chance to examine the evidence. :smile:
     
  8. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

    Messages:
    16,800
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2005
    Location:
    Delta, BC, Canada
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    And according to that thread, they don't show up in either prints or scans.

    But I've absolutely no doubt that Ilford/Harman want to know about this, so I would strongly suggest you contact them directly. I suggest you PM Simon R. Galley here on APUG - he will be glad you did.

    Sometimes he takes a day or so to get back to people, but he always does.
     
  9. snay1345

    snay1345 Member

    Messages:
    95
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2009
    Location:
    Joshua Tree
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I was the guy who posted about it on the large format forum. I have since bought other packs of film and have not had the same wavy lines.
     
  10. AgX

    AgX Member

    Messages:
    11,904
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2007
    Location:
    Germany
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I assume Ilford Photo meanwhile got to see that films.

    Is there any update on this matter?
     
  11. pentaxuser

    pentaxuser Subscriber

    Messages:
    8,195
    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Location:
    Daventry, No
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Like AgX has said an update would be helpful. I don't recall seeing any complaints here on APUG at the time and if you look at the LF posts then it seems quite a stretch to claim it is across the whole range of Ilford films and by implication a lot of users are affected. If this were to have been the case then I'd have expected a lot of complaints both here and on another U.K. forum I am a member of

    It just seems rather strange that we have heard no more.

    So OP what was the outcome?

    pentaxuser
     
  12. pirx70

    pirx70 Member

    Messages:
    3
    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2011
    Shooter:
    Med. Format RF
    Hello,
    I am another affected user. Bought 24 pcs 120 film last year, and another 20 in May - on each single developed roll the wavy "micro-crack" pattern in the film surface is present. I haven't seen it in prints. My primary concern now would be how this might develop during the long-term storage of developed negatives.
    Cheers
    Przemek
     
  13. AgX

    AgX Member

    Messages:
    11,904
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2007
    Location:
    Germany
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Is that a sinosoidal pattern?
     
  14. Sponsored Ad
  15. pentaxuser

    pentaxuser Subscriber

    Messages:
    8,195
    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Location:
    Daventry, No
    Shooter:
    35mm
    If you have a concern I'd contact Ilford. Even if these micro-crack patterns don't affect prints I am sure that Ilford will be concerned to determine if it is an Ilford fault.

    You deserve an investigation and Ilford deserve the chance to do one.It can't do anything unless it is told

    pentaxuser
     
  16. AgX

    AgX Member

    Messages:
    11,904
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2007
    Location:
    Germany
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    We are already on their forum, so no reason to expect them not to know.
     
  17. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

    Messages:
    15,202
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2003
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I have some Delta 400 from 2011 that shows the same thing. It doesn't make a difference in the prints, however, so I don't worry about it.
     
  18. pentaxuser

    pentaxuser Subscriber

    Messages:
    8,195
    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Location:
    Daventry, No
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Can you explain? Thanks

    pentaxuser
     
  19. AgX

    AgX Member

    Messages:
    11,904
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2007
    Location:
    Germany
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I meant that I expect someone from Ilford Photo (if not Simon himself) to glance through this/their Ilford forum on a regular base. So they should know about these reports and if interested are able to contact our complaining fellows by themselves to gain further information or samples.
     
  20. pentaxuser

    pentaxuser Subscriber

    Messages:
    8,195
    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Location:
    Daventry, No
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Thanks AgX. I am not sure APUG is in fact Ilford's forum despite Simon's helpful presence here but I do think that it is not his responsibility to pick up every problem that someone asserts is an Ilford product problem.

    Just my opinion of course

    pentaxuser
     
  21. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

    Messages:
    16,800
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2005
    Location:
    Delta, BC, Canada
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    This (sub)forum is the Ilford/Harman sub-forum in the Partners' forum on APUG.

    So yes, this is Ilford's (sub)forum here.
     
  22. Sal Santamaura

    Sal Santamaura Member

    Messages:
    1,491
    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    Location:
    San Clemente, California
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    You are a victim of the confusing terminology used in vBulletin that describes categories as "forums." I suspect AgX was referring to this category/forum, which is titled as follows,

    Forum: [Partner] ILFORD PHOTO​

    rather than all of APUG.

    I don't know whether it's in his job description or not, but he sure seems to make it his responsibility. :D
     
  23. AgX

    AgX Member

    Messages:
    11,904
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2007
    Location:
    Germany
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Yes Sal, I refered to this "Partner Forum". And yes, the Apug terminology can be confusing.
     
  24. Simon R Galley

    Simon R Galley Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,052
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2005
    Location:
    Cheshire UK
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Dear All,

    I have seen this....and once again I have checked with Technical Service, we have no complaints AT ALL recorded regarding this issue, but we did have this discussed last year when we had one last year
    and examined the film.

    I have asked Technical service to give me a possible cause and I will post it in due course.

    As part of our QC procedures we process and expose and process on average 400 to 600 film samples per week, we have NEVER seen this issue....ever on our samples.

    Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited
     
  25. pdeeh

    pdeeh Member

    Messages:
    3,415
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2012
    Location:
    UK
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    It is most peculiar that so often people will complain on forums about alleged film faults, yet will never send the evidence to the manufacturer for analysis.
     
  26. pirx70

    pirx70 Member

    Messages:
    3
    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2011
    Shooter:
    Med. Format RF
    Dear Simon,

    I will most gladly send you the sample. Could you just give me a hint how to go about it and what information you need?

    Bests
    Przemek