What am I doing wrong....

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by kb244, Jun 18, 2006.

  1. kb244

    kb244 Member

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    Ok so I get this Beseler CS-6 developing kit from a local photo store, 1litre kit, has 4 steps (1st Dev, Color Dev, Bleach-Fix, Stabalizer). Now I know temperature is critically important in least the first two steps. I follow the instructions to the dot as per the manual, and the Provia 100F roll didnt come out right, so I figured maybe I just didnt do it right, so did the same with a Velvia 50 roll even more attention to detail and so on, same exact results. I can't figure out what I am doing wrong. These are the results off one of the rolls as I scaned it in as a color positive without correction ( an Auto-Level version just after the uncorrected if it helps, kinda doubt but who knows )

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    As an experiment, I shot up an old roll of ektachrome 50T, developed that all the same, except instead of 6:30 for the first dev, and 4:00 for the color dev, I did about 10:00 and 6:30. The results being a darker purple in the usually-black portion of the strip. And the subjects of the shots being a bit more discernable, but still a monochromatic color cast ( just of purple instead of amber now )
     
  2. Dave Parker

    Dave Parker Inactive

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    I don't see mention of a reversal step???? your images look like negative film?

    R.
     
  3. roteague

    roteague Member

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    These look like color negatives, not transparencies. Perhaps mrcallow will see this and be able to help. I haven't developed my own stuff in 15 years or so, but I've never seen results like this from home processing E6.
     
  4. kb244

    kb244 Member

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    The kit was Beseler CS-6 Kit, "For all E-6 compatible color slide films" , inside talks about how it is "Process your own E-6 color slides with Beseler's easy-to-use four-step process. Film can be pushed, pulled, or normally processed in small inversion tanks or automatic processors."

    And mentions that "Reversal Agent is incorporated in the color developer, which eliminates the Reversal step or re-exposure requirement".
     
  5. Dave Parker

    Dave Parker Inactive

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    I wonder if the chemistry has gone bad? does it have a date on the box? because if these are straight positive scans, they look like color negative film, as a quick test, you might tray scanning them as a negative and see what the results are, if they look closer to what they should be in the scan, then for some reason the kit is not working correctly in the reversal process.

    R.
     
  6. kb244

    kb244 Member

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    [​IMG]

    Hrm no kidding... just inverted and de-saturated that above.... Think my color developer step might be shot?
     
  7. Dave Parker

    Dave Parker Inactive

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    Yeppers, sure looks like something is wrong in the color developer step with the reversal process...

    R.
     
  8. kb244

    kb244 Member

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    here the frame when scaned as a color negative.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. kb244

    kb244 Member

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    as for date on box, no date on the box or contents, just this price sticker on the top, and the UPC on the bottom.

    [​IMG]

    Acording to their website.

    But... what if they sold me non-fresh bad chemistry?
     
  10. Dave Parker

    Dave Parker Inactive

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    Well if their pricing policies are the same as all the stores I worked in, the 030205 on the top of the price tag indicates they received the product in stock over a year ago, which would lead me to believe that the kit is out of date and possibly has gone bad, E-6 chemistry can be very sensitive to storage conditions, again, my guess based on what you have posted and your images, looks like something is going wrong in the color developer stage which is not working correctly for color or reversal. In looking at the frame you scanned as a negative, you can see the reversal did not work, the lines on the track are white and in your positive scans they are black..

    R.
     
  11. kb244

    kb244 Member

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    *grumbles*
     
  12. kb244

    kb244 Member

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    Any advice for 'Next Time...'
     
  13. Dave Parker

    Dave Parker Inactive

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    If possible, I would order a kit from one of the larger volume sellers like B&H who have a tendancy to turn over their chemistry quicker, you can also make your own E6 chemistry...I can't find the link to the page right now, but here is a link to information on E6 developing.

    http://www.bonavolta.ch/hobby/en/photo/e6.htm

    R.
     
  14. JBrunner

    JBrunner Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    It appears that there may be a problem with the 10.009144643 Billion Molecules / mm2 of Cyan Dye (to Record Red Light); 6.902812504 Billion Molecules / mm2 of Magenta Dye (to Record Green Light); and 9.122236657 Billion Molecules / mm2 of Yellow Dye (to Record Blue Light). Your light waves may be shedding electrons.

    But it is probably just bad chemistry.
     
  15. Dave Parker

    Dave Parker Inactive

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    Hey you be nice!!! Why don't you really tax your mind and go over and talk to Ed Davor about grainy film, he has taxed my mind for the day!

    LOL

    :D

    R.
     
  16. kb244

    kb244 Member

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    Know of a good way to correct the light waves hitting into my camera, perhaps a device where I can alter the molecules?

    :D lol
     
  17. Donald Qualls

    Donald Qualls Member

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    That sure looks like bad color dev. No idea why it'd come out as a negative, unless you also have bad first dev (and then it should be solid dye, no image at all), but it also looks as if you have some unreacted dye couplers, which could form a faint orange negative image if something removed the dyes along with the silver.

    There's certainly *something* seriously wrong with your chemistry... :tongue:
     
  18. Ed Sukach

    Ed Sukach Member

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    I'm betting that the chemistry was shot. Check your instruction sheet - usually one can determine the chemical "goodness" by the appearance of the various components. I can't remember the composition of Beseler E-6, offhand, but I think (probability = 10%) that Part "B" of the color developer should be "light straw" in color. Significant darkening indicates oxidation/ age-related "shot-ness".
     
  19. srs5694

    srs5694 Member

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    I agree with the others that it looks like bad chemistry. A couple more comments, though:

    First, it looks like the box has had three different price tags on it. Aside from the tag date issues others have speculated about, replacing old price tags with new ones is something you'd expect to see with a product that's been on the shelf for months or even years.

    Second, although IMHO the best bet is to just discard the remaining chemistry, if you're willing to sacrifice a roll, you could try reversing the film with light. You'd develop in the first developer, do a stop bath, expose the film to light, and proceed with the second developer and on through the rest of the steps. I'm by no means an expert on E-6 chemistry, so I wouldn't care to speculate on the probability of your getting useable slides out of this, assuming the chemistry has gone bad; but it might be worth trying. Even if you don't get traditionally good results, it's conceivable you'd get something that would be "off" in an interesting way.
     
  20. kb244

    kb244 Member

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    Well to give you an idea.

    1st Developer - yellowish clear , but had some small crystal structures at the bottom.
    Color developer Parts - One clear, the other almost black.
    Bleach Fix - Both very very dark
    Stabalizer - only 10ml of it, but was clear with a tint

    needless to say the Color Dev +reversal was almost like a dark black rust color, and the Bleach Fix, was almost like a dark grape soda color.

    ....

    Needless to say, they took back the merchandise, my wife returned it for me while I was at work, since I work 9 hour days, and typically 7 days a week.
     
  21. Donald Qualls

    Donald Qualls Member

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    I recall E-4 color dev being a very, very dark purple, some 30+ years ago; that might have been normal, but the negative appearance and poor dye density could come from bad foggant -- you'd get a little additional development and accompanying dye deposition from the exposed areas if there wasn't a high level of halide solvent in the first dev (since the first dev probably isn't to completion, there'll be exposed halide that wasn't developed), but without the fogging effect, you wouldn't get the positive you should.

    In any case, you got what you needed -- except for the film, and the images on it... :sad:
     
  22. Ed Sukach

    Ed Sukach Member

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    One component of the color developer was "almost black" and Color developer + reversal, a "dark black rust color..." ...
    *NO* doubt in my mind that chemistry was BAD!!! Probably on the shelf, or in storage, for years.

    The place where you bought the stuff should be commended for accepting the return. At least there is *some* integrity left in this world.