What camera is this?

Discussion in 'Medium Format Cameras and Accessories' started by Leksele, Mar 31, 2012.

  1. Leksele

    Leksele Member

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    Hello,
    I have old folding camera with no sigh.
    "Made in Germany" only.
    Format 6x9. Film - 616
    Lens - Schneider Xenar 120 4.5 N 307403 (I didn't find this lens in Schneider's site!)
    Shutter -Compur

    IMG_6105.JPG IMG_6106.JPG IMG_6107.JPG

    I didn't find it in McKeon.
    My be anybody help me?
    Thanks
     
  2. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Member

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    Is there a name embossed in the leather covering?

    If the film is 616 then the film format is bigger than 6x9. You can adapt it to 120 film though then you can get 6x10 frames from it.

    I have a similar Kodak one which I have modified.


    Steve.
     
  3. Peltigera

    Peltigera Member

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    I suspect that it is a "own brand" made by the likes of Voigtlander or Zeiss for large retailers.
     
  4. Pumalite

    Pumalite Subscriber

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    Bet is an old Bessa 6X9 Folder.
     
  5. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Member

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    Not with 616 film.


    Steve.
     
  6. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    Unlikely with a Schneider lens, they tended to use their own although I have seen Voightlanders fitted with Tessars.

    There were a number of short lived German camera manufacturere sin the 1930's so with no name identification can be a big problem.

    Ian
     
  7. Rick A

    Rick A Subscriber

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    It could possibly be a "Beier of Freisen" manufacture, but the "DF" or is it "FD" logo may prove elsewise.. The labeling on the shutter is who made the shutter, and the model.
     
  8. Shootar401

    Shootar401 Member

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    Ihagee of some sorts?

    Or an Avus?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 2, 2012
  9. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    Again very unlikely to be an Avus as they use Voigtlanders own lenses, and it's not like any Ihagee I've adverts for in the 1930's. That rimset shutter gives a rough idea of the date as does the lens serial number which is 1929-31. I've a 1929 Almanac on it's way in the post at the moment I'll see what possiblities there are - no of roughly similar cameras.

    Ian
     
  10. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    The FD is the shutter manufacturer F.Deckel.

    I had a good look through my BJP Almanacs and in 1929 Xenars aren't listed on cameras from any manufactuer however some smaller companies aren't advertising. There's no Xenars on any rebranded cameras either. They appear on Nagel cameras not long after and then on Kodak cameras after they bought the Nagel company however this camera isn't like any of the Nagel/Kodak Six-16 cameras.

    So yuou'll need to keep looking.

    Ian
     
  11. xya

    xya Member

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    maybe it's a wirgin. they bought their shutters from deckel (license compur) and optics from schneider. wirgin became balda later which also bought optics from schneider for the "good" models. just a guess.
     
  12. Mustafa Umut Sarac

    Mustafa Umut Sarac Member

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    From analysing from lens number
    300,000 February 1929
    400,000 April 1931
    Schneider started the 300 000 series February 1929 , your lens may manufactured in following 3 months.
    I will keep searching.

    Umut
     
  13. Mustafa Umut Sarac

    Mustafa Umut Sarac Member

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    It looks like Nagel.

    The era camera manufacturers are herebelow.

    Adox Dr.Schleußner Neu-Isenburg
    Agfa Camerawerk, München
    Allgäuer Kamerawerkstätten Gomag, Pfronten
    Altissa - Eho, Dresden
    Anschütz, Berlin
    Apparate- und Kamerabau (Aka), Friedrichshafen
    Arnold, Marienberg

    Balda, Dresden, Bünde
    Baumann, Stuttgart/Ludwigsburg
    Beier, Freital
    Belca, Dresden
    Curt Bentzin, Görlitz
    Richard Bentzin, Görlitz
    Bermpohl, Berlin
    Berner, Elberfeld
    Berning, Schwelm
    Bertram, München
    Bial & Freund, Breslau & Wien
    Bickenbach, Berlin
    Bilora (Kürbi & Niggeloh), Radevormwald
    Bolta, Nürnberg
    Braun, Nürnberg
    Brinkert, Duisburg
    Brückner, Rabenau
    Bruns, München
    Buisson, Emmendingen
    Busch,Rathenow

    Camera Gesellschaft, Stuttgart
    Certo,Dresden
    Colibri, Ulm
    Contessa Werke, Stuttgart
    Contessa-Nettel, Stuttgart

    Dacora Dangelmeyer, Reutlingen,Nürnberg
    Ebner, Stuttgart-Vaihingen
    Elca-Elop, Glücksburg,Flensburg
    Ernemann, Dresden
    Feinwerktechnik, Lahr
    Fertsch, Jena
    Finetta, Goslar
    Foitzik, Trier
    Foth, Berlin
    Futura Werk, Freiburg

    Genos, Nürnberg
    Gerlach,Wuppertal
    Glunz, Hannover
    Goerz, Berlin
    Goldammer, Frankfurt

    Hesekiel, Berlin
    Hüttig, Dresden

    ICA, Dresden
    Ihagee, Dresden
    Iloca, Hamburg
    Indra, Frankfurt
    Ising, Bergneustadt
    Junka, Zirndorf

    Kraftanski, Berlin
    Kamerawerkstätten Guthe und Thorsch, Dresden
    Kenngott, Stuttgart
    Kilfitt, München
    King, Bad Liebenzell
    Knödler, Fürth
    Kochmann, Dresden
    Kodak, Stuttgart
    Krauss, Stuttgart
    Kronke, Dresden
    Krügener, Frankfurt
    Kunik, Frankfurt
    Kürbi & Niggeloh - Bilora, Radevormwald

    Laack, Rathenow
    Leidolf, Wetzlar
    Leitz, Wetzlar
    Linhof, München
    Lippische Kamerafabrik, Barntrup
    Ludwig, Dresden

    Mader, Isny
    Mentor, Dresden
    Merkel, Dresden
    Mimosa, Dresden
    Minox, Giessen
    Montanus, Solingen
    Münster Kamerabau, Ulm

    Nagel Werke, Stuttgart
    Necca, Neckarsulm
    Neidig, Plankstadt
    Nettel,Sontheim

    Oehler, Wetzlar
    Orion Werke, Hannover

    Pentacon, Dresden
    Photavit - Bolta, Nürnberg
    Plasmat, Berlin
    Plaubel, Frankfurt
    Pouva, Freital

    Rheinmetall, Solingen
    Rietzschel, München
    Robot, Düsseldorf
    Rodehüser, Hamm
    Rodenstock, München
    Rollei, Braunschweig
    Ruberg & Renner, Hagen

    Sida, Berlin
    Steineck, Tutzing
    Steinheil, München

    Thowe, Freital

    Voigtländer, Wien & Braunschweig
    Voss-Diax, Ulm
    Vredeborch, Nordenham

    Welta, Freital
    Wenk, Nürnberg
    Westfälische Kamera- und Apparatebau, Heessen
    Wirgin, Wiesbaden

    Carl Zeiss, Jena
    Zeiss Ikon, Dresden & Stuttgart
    Zeh, Dresden
     
  14. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    It's not like the Nagel cameras the struts etc are different. In addition the Nagel cameras were 116 nor 616.

    Ian
     
  15. MDR

    MDR Member

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  16. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    Compare the images it's not like the Nagel Librette at all (except very basic shape) it's a different format anyway. From the outset Nagel and then Kodak always marked their brand names on the cameras and the Compur shutter plates are marked Nagel then Kodak as well.

    Ian
     
  17. BrianL

    BrianL Member

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    Wow, what a wide range of German manufacturers during that period. I wonder if Germany was the largest makers of cameras during the pre-wwII period. And, if it made the greatest number of units. They had the best glass back then and supplied lenses around the world to the likes of Kodak that I think was the largest US makers of cameras. I wonder who the top 20 US manufactureres were.
     
  18. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    Germany was definitely the largest camera manufacturing country and there's one or two companies not on that list. During the mid 1920's until the mid 1930's there were a number of short lived companies as trade was very tough, it forced a number of large companies to amalgamate as Zeiss Ikon.

    Many of Kodak's better cameras of the 1930's were made in Germany at the Nagel factory which came under Kodak Ltd (UK) rather than Eastman Kodak (US) as did the coating plants on the Continent including in Hungary (which became Forte).

    Even top US manufacturers like Agfa Ansco were under German control :D It needs to be remembered that much of the movement to smaller formats began in Europe and Germany led the way, the US lagged behind.

    Ian
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 8, 2012
  19. Dan Quan

    Dan Quan Subscriber

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    It sure looks like a sweet shooter to me...[​IMG]
     
  20. Leksele

    Leksele Member

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