What is a C-Type print?

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by Matt5791, Aug 11, 2006.

  1. Matt5791

    Matt5791 Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,003
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2005
    Location:
    England, Bir
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    This may sound like a silly question, but what is a C-Type print? Is is the same as an RA4 print?

    Matt
     
  2. ZorkiKat

    ZorkiKat Member

    Messages:
    346
    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2006
    Location:
    Manila PHILI
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I believe the term "type-C" came from the days when there were several methods of making colour prints (just like today, like RA-4 and digital inkjet, dye-sub, etc) in use. Type C referred to colour prints whose coloured dye images were chromogenically formed, like Ektacolor or Agfacolor prints but were not Pavelcolor, Kotavachrome or Kodachrome, or Ansco Printon prints, as well as being radically different from dye-transfer, washoff relief, carbro, etc. One gets to read the term "type-C" in older photomagazines from the 1950s.

    RA-4 could be considered as a descendant of type-C. One thing which makes RA-4 different is its handling/processing speed. Chemical processing is often completed in 90 secs as opposed to the extremely long (as well as more numerous stages) times used by the original type-C.
     
  3. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    17,981
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Location:
    Honolulu, Ha
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    In galleryspeak "C-print" refers to prints made on color negative paper. These can be conventional prints from color negs or Lightjet/Lambda/Chromira prints on the same paper. Galleries that are more scrupulous about such things refer to the latter as "Digital C-prints."
     
  4. Claire Senft

    Claire Senft Member

    Messages:
    3,242
    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Location:
    Milwaukee, W
    Shooter:
    35mm
    C print meam chromogenic print. This is the method for making color prints from negatives. RA4 prints are chromogenic prints.
     
  5. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

    Messages:
    25,894
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    The original definition of a "C" print was a print from Kodak Type "C" color paper intended to make prints from color negatives. At the same time, there was Kodak Type "R" paper for making prints from Kodachrome and Ektachrome slides.

    Later this changed to Kodak Ektacolor Paper Type (XXXX) wheren XXXX was a number, and Kodak Ektachrome Paper Type (XXXX).

    After that, it became Ektacolor 70 paper, Ektacolor Plus, Ektacolor Supra and now Endura paper. The Ektachrome became Radiance and was discontinued in about 2001.

    These designations were only used for chromogenic papers and they were trademarked by Kodak.

    More than you ever wanted to know.

    PE
     
  6. nlochner

    nlochner Member

    Messages:
    54
    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2006
    Location:
    Michigan
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    My RA-4 Paper of choice is FujiFilm Super Type-C Matte, so i think type C does have to do with RA-4 processing.
     
  7. Sparky

    Sparky Member

    Messages:
    2,099
    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2005
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I don't think 'C' ever came from the word 'chromogenic' - the latter word was introduced in the 80s if I'm not mistaken - I BELIEVE if I correctly recall - that the C came from the process name - it was a variation of the C-41 process, which is a holdover from those times. But I do believe that the C in the process name denoted simply 'color'. Much like the later EP-2 process (precursor to the RA processes) was named after 'ektacolor process no.2'.
     
  8. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

    Messages:
    25,894
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    The original "C" paper process was P122 and the original "R" paper process was P121. The original negative film process was C22. This was after the consent decree in the 50s. These were arbitrary letters (well the "R" for reversal had a purpose I suppose), and were abandoned in the 60s. It is the outside trade and magazines that took up the terms, but Fuji and Agfa never used these terms at all. Their first compatible products were made available after Kodak abandoned the terminology. This would be in the 70s.

    The word chromogenic has been used for years in the trade to refer to films and papers in which the dyes were formed during development. In chemical speak it means color - forming (chromo - genic). It was introduced back when Fischer discovered the reaction of color developers with couplers. This would be nearly 100 years ago.

    PE
     
  9. Matt5791

    Matt5791 Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,003
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2005
    Location:
    England, Bir
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Thanks for the replies!!

    So I am perfectly correct it seems to call an hand made RA4 print a C-print

    But ones made on a mini lab are not really C-prints, but you might get away with it.

    The reason I ask is bacause defining a print as a C-print seems to have a certain cachet about it - rather like, in monochrome, a silver gelatin print.

    Matt
     
  10. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    17,981
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Location:
    Honolulu, Ha
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    Actually, the prints in a minilab are usually C-prints, but they might be digital C-prints (Fuji Frontier, for example) or optical C-prints.
     
  11. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

    Messages:
    25,894
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    According to Kodak's trademark of the original "C", this is only applicable to analog chromogenic materials.

    BTW, David, I hope to see you in NYC.

    PE
     
  12. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    17,981
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Location:
    Honolulu, Ha
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    I've had a print on Endura from a Fuji Frontier machine--would this qualify as a "C" print by this standard?
     
  13. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

    Messages:
    25,894
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Well, technically, since it was an EK trademark since the 50s, but then was abandoned in the 70s, IDK.

    I would suspect that it is an 'urban trademark' or some such now. It really as no current contextual meaing AFAIK. People use it indiscriminately without regard for the original meaning from what I can determine.

    PE
     
  14. srs5694

    srs5694 Member

    Messages:
    2,725
    Joined:
    May 18, 2005
    Location:
    Woonsocket,
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Some minilabs use completely different technologies. A CVS drug store up the street from me uses something that I suspect is an inkjet or similar technology. Certainly it produces ugly, streaky results just like my desktop inkjet printer. When I want quick 4x6-inch prints, I go further, to the local Walgreens, which uses a Fuji Frontier that produces much better results.