What is a pro medium format camera

Discussion in 'Medium Format Cameras and Accessories' started by Daniel-OB, Aug 26, 2007.

  1. Daniel-OB

    Daniel-OB Member

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    I make 16x20 and 20x24 prints, so need 56x70 mm negative.

    For studio portrait ,... I have Linhof BY with RapidRolex (56x72mm) + Rodenstocks.

    I used to use (I can already state it) mamiya rz proII which is ... But i realized such a camera has non-forgiving problems (say absolutely unreliable camera).

    I am looking for a camera to replace RZ ProII with 50mm-ULD-F4.5, Macro 140mm, and 90mm lenses.

    6x6 must be croped to 45x56 so it is much smaller than 56x72 which I like. I will use it in field, say events, weddings, and location portraits. Thinking between Hassy and Rolley 6008i or 6001. Can Zeiss lenses like 50 mm distagon and 100 mm planar accomodate for loss in format size so I can make the same photograph quality, with film speed twice less, as I had with RZ mamiya. Pentax 67 I think will take me no where due to bad lenses. Also I wold like that my new friend free me me from technical problems like slide in mamiya. My new camera will be used for professional work, so no sorry.
    Would like to hear words from McBlane also.

    What you woud do in my place.
     
  2. david b

    david b Member

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    A Hasselblad is a professional camera and the lenses are superb.

    Oh, and it won't fire with the darkslide in.
     
  3. Lopaka

    Lopaka Member

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    I'd get the interlock switch repaired. But then I've been doing this for 47 years - if I trashed a complete system everytime a repair was needed I'd have run out of camera manufacturers a long time ago.

    Bob
     
  4. Drew B.

    Drew B. Subscriber

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    Oh, you interested in selling your Rz? Let the bidding begin....!
     
  5. Ray Heath

    Ray Heath Member

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    g'day Daniel,

    i'd come to the realisation that having professional/best/latest/most expensive/fastest/coolest/most desirablest equipment won't make me a 'professional'.

    i'd forget all the pseudo-techno BS and learn to get the best out of the gear i already have.

    i'd blame myself when i stuff up, learn from the experience, and move on.

    Ray
     
  6. JBrunner

    JBrunner Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    A professional camera is any camera a professional might use. I occasionally use a holga in a professional capacity, and am well compensated for the effort. :smile:

    For a "pro" camera system, I would echo hassy, but they can be more temperamental than the Mamiya (find out how to un-jam it before the shoot), and are much more expensive to purchase, maintain, and repair. The lenses are, of course, first rate. Bronica is also a good brand, but if you shoot hassy, nobody will question your equipment, (if they are naive enough to judge by that.) If it were me, I'd get the Mamiya repaired, or get the proper backs to have interlock, if that is the case.

    When you are looking to "pro" equipment, you are buying into an entire system, and every system has strengths and weaknesses, or things that might be a preference. I always appreciated the 6x7 format over 6x6 because it composed more negative area for the average composition required for the type of things I was requires to shoot, and the aspect ratio it would normally be published at.

    There is no perfect camera, just really good ones. Find a good one thats perfect for you, based on its strengths and weaknesses, and your personal preference of the system and its components. They are all well built, regardless of one bad experience.

    Any of them can screw you to the wall, at any time. That's when the professional part needs to kick in, meaning you.
     
  7. Daniel-OB

    Daniel-OB Member

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    Guys I undestand you all. And you all are correct. My ZF is good studio camera. I use my Linhof in studio too and never forget to take the slide from RapidRolex or Mamiya ZF.

    But when you run in field and have to fly around it is possible to relly on some cameras features. I consider a camera part of me when I work especialy in difficult conditions. We both cannot work in the way to check each other at every step. I know posibilities of my camera and i beleive in it. If its features fails and show low reliability I can use it for some personal work only ....

    I am looking for some camera 6x6 that can make the same photograph as 6x7 RZ on 20x24" paper, in field with high tension works. As known to me Hassy and Rolley6000 series are the "best" at the moment and with Zeiss and Schn. lenses, but never tryed. I am looking for the friend I can beleive in not for one I would always check what he is doing. If it does not exists than I would keep my f... RZ and accept to work with sh... coworker whose actions I always watch upon.

    If Rolley cannot make it what for someone pays $5000? Yes errors are always possible but not during the sesion. That is what my standard do not accepts if I should call it a pro camera.

    And someone mentioned camera do not make anyone a pro. Yes, but why you pay than thosands of dollars for it. Get some whatever and try. A pro camera helps to photographer in difficult conditions, not when the Sun is on your back and a nice girl in front.
     
  8. HerrBremerhaven

    HerrBremerhaven Member

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    Fuji GX680. Weighs a ton, lots of electronics, SLR view, and very nice lenses. It is not idiot proof, and will not cover all possible mistakes. However, they do have a good track record (the later versions) for reliability.

    If you want to shoot handheld, then a Mamiya 7 II with their 50mm lens. Probably better lens quality than the RZ67 overall, though the rangefinder focus limits some aspects of the camera.

    Ciao!

    Gordon Moat
    A G Studio
     
  9. kjsphoto

    kjsphoto Subscriber

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    I would buy a hasselblad and learn to shoot square full frame. It is an amazing format once you get the knack for it.
     
  10. eddym

    eddym Member

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    "Errors" rarely happen when you are not shooting the camera.
     
  11. TheFlyingCamera

    TheFlyingCamera Membership Council Council

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    I'd go with the Hasselblad- yes, they do break down like any other camera, but they're incredibly robust and reliable. And you can find their gear used for a fraction of what it used to sell for. I had my Hassy kit for well over a decade, and it was very reliable. I did have to get my old 500C body repaired, but it had been used professionally by several wedding photographers before me, and was over 30 years old when it went bad (I believe it was made in 1963).
     
  12. bdial

    bdial Subscriber

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    You can certainly get 20x24 prints from Hasselblad or Rollei negatives, even with the necessary cropping. However, I'm sure you realize there will be a bit more grain than from rectangular format cameras. Or, you can adopt the square format for enlargement.
    Of the two, the Hasselblad is probably better for availability of lenses and accesories. The Hasselblad's slide interlock is mechanical, and doesn't depend on a specific type of back.
    OTH, a friend has a Mamya MF rangefinder, and produces amazing results with it. In his landscapes, you can practically count the pine needles in trees that are a KM away. He doesn't care for the reflex cameras because they tend to require retrofocus design lenses.
    I recommend that you go to a camera show, or a well stocked shop and try out a few of the suggestions and see what fits the way you like to work.
     
  13. Soeren

    Soeren Member

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    Say what ????????????????????????????
     
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  15. Daniel-OB

    Daniel-OB Member

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    Are CFi lenses for Hassy still in production?
     
  16. TheFlyingCamera

    TheFlyingCamera Membership Council Council

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    I believe that is accurate- check on the Hasselblad website for more specific information about their product line.
     
  17. Cheryl Jacobs

    Cheryl Jacobs Member

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    I'd recommend looking at the Bronica cameras before you shell out the big bucks on Hasselblad. Mine have traveled three continents with me on shoots and workshops, and I have never had a single problem with either of them. They also cost a fraction of what Hasseys do, and the glass is excellent.

    I realize there are those who like the weight of the Hassey, but IMO that's not a good enough reason to spend so much more money.

    Bronica went out of business, so you can only get the equipment used, but they are built solidly enough for that not to be a major deterrent, at least for me. Both my Bronicas were bought secondhand.

    - CJ
     
  18. keithwms

    keithwms Member

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    If you shoot 6x6 at ~ISO 400 and crop to 645, you will have substantially more b&w grain at 11x14" and up than if you shoot straight to 6x7. It may not matter at ISO 100 but at 400 you will already see it.

    I shoot 6x6 on the mamiya 6, which takes three of the best lenses money can buy (albeit several stops slower than the hassie SLR offerings, which is fine for RF but not fine for portrait SLR work). Anyway I feel totally comfortable with 20x24 enlargements from 6x6 cropped to 645, but compared to what I get from 6x7 or 6x8 or 6x9... well there simply is no comparison. It has nothing to do with resolution, the real issue is grain and the role it plays in the tonality. Now, if you shoot slides or chromogenics then grain may not be an issue, but with traditional b&w, you will see the difference quite obviously. Also note that with 6x7 you can get quite usable polaroids that are great for proofing and even miniprints.

    Just swallow your pride, get the RZ fixed, and enjoy it! The RB and RZ can deliver results rivaling 4x5". In fact, people do even adapt the RB/RZ lenses for 4x5 work. Seriously Daniel, just take a shot of bourbon, calm down, and think this through carefully. Don't make a rash decision on the fly! You can't jump to 645 or whatever just because one back screwed you over on your first shoot. I have something like 12 cameras (at last count) and it took me a roll or two of film with each of them to learn the quirks and feel comfortable. In the long run, the eccentricities of a camera system are like the personality of an old friend.
     
  19. TheFlyingCamera

    TheFlyingCamera Membership Council Council

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    In the long run, to insure your system is up and running 100% of the time if you are working professionally, you should have at least two bodies. As has been noted, it would be cheaper for you to stick with your current system and just get another RZ or RB body so if your main one goes down, it takes 2 minutes to fetch the 2nd, swap out the lens and film back, and keep rolling. Same thing with film backs. Just get a couple of spares.
     
  20. DrPablo

    DrPablo Member

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    I'm really skeptical of this, Keith (specifically 6x6 cropped to 645 versus 6x7). Enlarging the long side to 24 inches is a 10.2-fold enlargement from 6 cm and an 8.7-fold enlargement from 7 cm. You really feel like there's "no comparison"? Compare that to 4x5, in which it's a 4.8-fold enlargement.

    Mathematically 645 and 6x7 are far closer to each other than either one is to 4x5 (which is about 10x13cm). I'd be suprised if many people could tell the difference between the 645 and 6x7 in a blinded comparison.
     
  21. Nick Zentena

    Nick Zentena Member

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  22. jd callow

    jd callow Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I've enlarged 6x6 to 24" and found the image to hold together very well. I shoot colour. I'm not ashamed of the medium and don't care if the grain begins to show -- actually I want the grain to emerge, otherwise I'd be inclined to shoot digital or inject a digital step. I do care that the image looks as I'd like, that it doesn't fall apart and most importantly that image requires being that large in the first place.

    If doing the math is important, then it might be worth looking into the resolving power of the Mamiya 6 and 7 lenses. They tend to be far better than all but the very best LF lenses (and as good or slightly better than the very best lf lenses), this combined with not having to stop down as much to achieve the same DOF and smaller distances of projection for similar enlargements tends to nullify or make less significant the differences in film size.

    Photography isn't done with a calculator and 4x5 tends to be better than 6x6 from a mamiya 6, but not substantially. I wouldn't choose lf over my mamiya for capacity of enlargement alone as it just isn't worth the effort.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 27, 2007
  23. MP_Wayne

    MP_Wayne Member

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    "Daniel-OB: What you woud do in my place."

    Yeah - I'd dump that Mamiya stuff for 10 cents on the dollar - that's what I did with my 2007 BMW when the ashtray got full... ;-)
     
  24. jstraw

    jstraw Member

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    :D
     
  25. Paul Howell

    Paul Howell Member

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    With the fall out in the medium format market I dont know which makers have legs, Hassy or Rollie? Spending a lot of money for a system that is no longer supported does not make a lot sense to me. Who is still making cameras?
     
  26. Cheryl Jacobs

    Cheryl Jacobs Member

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    Nick, correct. They stopped production. They committed to providing parts and service for a number of years -- can't remember how many, but I'm sure a quick google search would turn up their policy.

    - CJ