What makes a VNF-1 film different from an E6 film?

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by cinejerk, Apr 20, 2012.

  1. cinejerk

    cinejerk Member

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    I recently come upon some vnf-1 films 7239 and 7240. Yes I know they are no longer in production.

    Maybe PE or someone in the know could explain to me the main differences between these VNF-1
    films and E6 films.

    I have scratch made chemicals that are very similar to what VNF-1 needs and I am using the correct
    development times but keep coming up with near clear film. I did try E6 timing also.

    I actually tried some E6 film in these chemicals and came up with quite usable images. Using E6 times of course.

    Maybe the films are just too old?
     
  2. nickrapak

    nickrapak Member

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    The films are probably too old. VNF-1 was notorious for its poor keeping, especially at room temperature. I have some 8mm VNF from the mid 90s that's unusable now. I know that the chemistry is pretty similar (but not identical) to E-6, and many people that have freezer stored VNF just cross-process in E-6 to save money.
     
  3. cinejerk

    cinejerk Member

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    Yes the film probably is too old. But you would think I would get some kind of image not just clear film.
    I have processed b&w film 50 years old and got an image. Of course with a lot of fog.
    Maybe I'm still developing too long. VNF-1 calls for 3 min in first developer.

    This is the formula I'm using for first developer.

    Sodium sulphite, anhydrous 39.0 g
    Potassium carbonate, anhydrous 14.0 g
    Sodium bicarbonate 12.0 g
    Phenidone 0.6 g
    Hydroquinone 6.0 g
    Potasium bromide 2.5 g
    Sodium thiocyanate 1.0 g
    Sodium hydroxide 3.3 g
    Potassium iodide, 0.1 per cent solution 4.5 ml
    Water to 1.0 liter
     
  4. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    The VNF formula and the E6 formula for the first and color developers are only roughly similar.

    E6 is intended for use at 100F and uses a different developing agent and some versions use a different silver halide solvent.

    The pH of developers used in all color processes is critical and is specified with the formula and also it gives tolerances. One should not attempt to mix an E6 or C41 developer without a pH measurement and the correct value in hand.

    PE
     
  5. cinejerk

    cinejerk Member

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    Thanks PE

    My copy of the VNF-1 formula shows a ph of 9.93 I read my formula ph at 10.

    Also the temperature of the VNF-1 formula for first developer is listed at 100 +/- 0.5 degree.
     
  6. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Note that the VNF process is NOT the E6 process.

    PE
     
  7. cinejerk

    cinejerk Member

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    Thanks PE. Yes I know the VNF-1 process is not E6.

    The formula above is the one I'm trying to use and it definitely is not an E6 formula.

    But it did work with a kodak and a fuji E6 film. :D Quite well too.

    Can you tell me why the VNF-1 process requires so much less process time? i.e. 3 minutes for first develop? More active developer?

    The E6 film still seemed to need 6 min.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2012
  8. cinejerk

    cinejerk Member

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    Ethylenediamine essential ???? Benzyl alcohol ???

    Will the VNF-1 process work at all without ethylenediamine and benzyl alcohol ??? :blink:
     
  9. stefan4u

    stefan4u Member

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  10. cinejerk

    cinejerk Member

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    Stefan

    I didn't forget the color developer. :D

    But it sure has ethylenediamine and benzyl alcohol in it doesn't it !!!

    That's why I asked the question. Can it be done with out the "ethylenediamine and benzyl alcohol"?

    The color developing agent I'm using is: CD-3
     
  11. Photo Engineer

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    VNF requires BZA and ED in it. E6 does not need BZA but does need ED in it.

    Without BZA and ED in VNF, Color dmax will be low and color shifted.

    E6 films have higher sharpness, better color rendition and finer grain. This makes it necessary to develop the emulsions longer in the first developer.

    PE
     
  12. cinejerk

    cinejerk Member

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    So without the ED and BZA how low a dmax should I get?
    My first attempt resulted is completely clear film.
    That's when I developed at E6 times.
    On my second attempt I reduced the development times to the VNF-1 numbers.
    This time all the exposed areas are clear and non exposed areas are a very light purple.
    If I had all the exact chemistry I would say the film is bad or too old.
    But until I can get some ED and BZA I will have to blame my chemistry.
     
  13. Photo Engineer

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    I would expect a color developer without ED or BZA would have a dmax in the range of 1/2 or 2/3 that of a real process. I would expect to see a speed increase due to the lower dmax.

    PE