What's a fair price for Devere 504 + Ilford Multigrade 600H?

Discussion in 'Darkroom Equipment' started by slight, Jul 26, 2012.

  1. slight

    slight Member

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    Hi everyone.

    Right now I'm trying to build my own dark room, after years of renting others'. I am very, very impressed with my Parisian printer's set of Devere 504 + Ilford 500H. It's just so versatile and easy to use, makes split grade printing a breeze. Then I went back to China I was totally tortured by the Chinese printer's Durst L1200 + CLS 450, it's just not powerful enough. I usually had to work for over 20 minutes to do creative dodge and burn while on the 500H everything could be done within five minutes.

    So when I'm about to build my own darkroom, I took care of finding the powerful machine as 500H. Very luckily, I found a Devere 504+600H on an online shop in England. The 600H is supposed to be even better than the 500H, with the capability to split grade by 1/10 of a grade.

    Problem is, as a beginning artist looking at a budget I'm very sensitive to price. I hear that you can find a complete set of 500H head within 500 Euros, not including enlarger chassis. But this seller who has the Devere 504 + 600H wants 1450 GBP for the complete head set alone, and is willing to sell the complete set with enlarger chassis at 1800 GBP. When we add a shipping cost of 350 GBP, the total goes to 2100GBP...I have never dealt with seller before but supposedly he's reputable and offers 6 months warranty.

    Do you think 600H plus Devere 504 at 2100 GBP with 6 months of warranty in total is an acceptable price? What should I check out before I pay the bill?

    Thank you very much

    Jing
     
  2. MartinP

    MartinP Member

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    I can very much recommend De Vere enlargers, having used a 504 and Dichromat head professionally and having a 203 at home now. The price you quote does seem a bit high, unless you think the 600H is worth so much on it's own? Nova Darkroom (in UK) has a 504 and Dichromat for under GBP500 currently. You could also look at Odyssey-Sales (also in UK) as they have the rights to the De Vere name, though the refurb prices are considerably higher than 'ordinary' secondhand options.

    For that delivery price you could just about drive over and collect the enlarger yourself, plus get a weekend away from busy Paris :wink:
     
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  3. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    Personally I'd think £600 is the maximum I'd pay with a couple of lenses and a head, however they aren't as plentiful as 7-8 years ago when they could be had for £100-£220

    One or two of the UK online darkroom supply stores are rather over-priced, Nova are much fairer :D. I paid £600 for the rarer De Vere 5108 with a Dichromat head but that came with a few lenses and 300mm Schneider Compon S lenses aren't cheap !!!!

    Ian
     
  4. eclarke

    eclarke Member

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    Wow! I bought my 504 with a 500 Multigrade head and three mixing boxes for $50.00 US, in very good condition, with some filmholders.
     
  5. cliveh

    cliveh Subscriber

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    I would agree with this and think you need to spend about £600 for a good De Vere.
     
  6. AdClem

    AdClem Member

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    Here's one that recently sold for £450 with 3 lenses:

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/180888324229

    Unless you're hammering out prints at really high volumes I question the advantage of a closed loop system. Also, while De Veres are specified to withstand a direct nuclear strike, if the electronics do fail I wonder whether repair would even be possible? Personally, I would favour the older, simpler 500. In the event of control unit failure you could substitute with the excellent RH Designs Analyser 500: http://www.rhdesigns.co.uk/darkroom/html/analyser_500.html

    Here are copies of the operating manuals that you might find of use:
    http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/2007319161818802.pdf
    http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/2007321151751747.pdf
     
  7. slight

    slight Member

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    Hello everyone:

    Thank you very much for the reply and yes I'm lucky that I asked first in apug before I get ripped off...

    The price is very high I agree. However I really need a complete and cosmetically good and functional Ilford Multigrade 600h, or Durst Multigraph, which is a rebadged ilford 600h.

    I need its features to do multi exposures of different contrast on the paper, this is a dully pain if I use other enlargers.

    I'm currently living in China and yes I'm ready to pay for the extra shipping, since I really need it and both 500H or 600H is so rare to find here.

    Can you establish a realistic price of 500H or 600H? I'm not dreaming about picking it up by 50 bucks,,,and I wouldn't dare imagine in what state it will be...

    I need 600w and multigrade system to do a lot of creative or improvised dodge and burn on 24 inch paper. Easy contrast control is a must..

    Thank you very much!

    Jing
     
  8. slight

    slight Member

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    450GBP honestly this is OUTRAGEOUS. My seller is trying to sell me lenses and accessories and I'm looking at a 2500GBP in total now. I can't believe it. Is it a dream?
     
  9. slight

    slight Member

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    Ok I will explain why I need the Multigrade 500H or 600H.

    I do a lot of dodging and burning to create shadows and I'm very used to precise contrast control. When I learned the basics of printing with my Parisian printer, we always printed on 24 inch with different contrasts: a zone of grade 3 here, and a zone of grade 5 there, etc. The result is just amazing. 500H allows me to change grade without changing the time, which is a fabulous function, makes my printing easy as a breeze.

    If I have to do it on a L1200 + CLS 450, everything becomes so complicated. Test strips are all over the floor and I had to keep in mind all the datas.

    So. I'm definitely going for 500H or even better, the 600H. The problem is it's so difficult to find them in very good cosmetic and functional state. Yes I can get a Devere 504 in China no problem, even brand new (Devere is now made in China, guys).

    Looking at the ebay link of 450 GBP just made me crazy. How and where can I get what I want for a fair price?!

    In the meanwhile, if any of you apugers are in Berlin During september and mid octobor, you are welcome to my solo exhibition in Berlin! It's in Fotogalerie Friedrischshain.

    Thank you very much

    Jing
     
  10. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    These are the typical prices they sell for here with everything, one UK store (I won't name) selling Seconhand Darkroom stuff is way too expensive, a complete rip-off, I'm told he used to work for Nova who as I said previously are quite reasonable.

    Ian
     
  11. David Allen

    David Allen Member

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    Hi Jing,

    I live in Berlin.

    Can you post information about the PV.

    By the way, have a look at German and Dutch eBay sites. Ilford 500 systems do not come up very often (and usually not with all the light boxes) but the average sale price is 2-300€.

    Best,

    David
    www.dsallen.de
     
  12. slight

    slight Member

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    Now one word is really worth a thousand pound. Honestly I should invite every one of you guys for beers.
     
  13. slight

    slight Member

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    Hello David!

    The opening is on 30 august, the exhibition is held by Fotogalerie Friedrichshain, Helsingforser Platz 1, 10243 Berlin Tel.: 030 / 296 16 84, fotogalerie@kulturring.org

    I will arrive in Berlin the 15th august to build up the exhibition, we should have a drink.

    Have to go out to celebrate with my friends, I'm leaving next monday for Paris to print for the exhibition. Laters!

    Best

    Jing
     
  14. David Allen

    David Allen Member

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    Hi Jing,

    Thanks for the information.

    What time is the PV - 20.00 Uhr?

    I will be back in Berlin from 17.08.2012 (going to Szczecin for a couple of days).

    Would be happy to meet up if you have time.

    My number is:
    +49 1577 30 15 790

    Look forward to your exhibition.

    Do you have a website?

    best,

    David
    www.dsallen.de
     
  15. eclarke

    eclarke Member

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    Take a look at the LPL with the VCCE head. I have two DeVeres and this LPL beats them to death..It stays aligned lamps are easy to get, contrast control is spectacular and a change ofmgrade doesn't alter the exposure..
     
  16. slight

    slight Member

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    Thank you Ian, I said good luck to that guy and am back on ebay. I checked both of the sellers you mentioned, they look professional. Thanks and you are welcome to share more tips on how to find an ideal enlarger on the online market!

    Best for you my friend.

    Jing
     
  17. slight

    slight Member

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    Hello David. Thank you very much for your kindness, we should definitely hang out together. One reason I have to do this exhibition in Berlin is that I'm very influenced by German artists like Anselm Kiefer and Otto Dix.

    I have noted down your phone number. In the opening day I will give a live experimental music performance, though I still don't know at which hour the opening will be held, I will tell you later. Hope I will see you there.

    Best

    Jing
     
  18. slight

    slight Member

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    Thank you very much for your advice! Yes I will look into the LPL VCCE head, I've heard many good things about it. Problem is I've never tried one. I really need 600w not because I need to do printing fast, but because a good part of my negatives are hyper dense. I need enough light to penetrate the negative. From the look of it LPL might not have that power I need...But yes why not slow down a bit? I'd consider that and see if I can try one at least once...They are cheap too.

    Thank you again!

    Jing
     
  19. MartinP

    MartinP Member

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    From the sublime to the ridiculous, how about a 504 with the Dichromat head (only 250W, if I remember correctly?) and under-lens filters? The usual two density ranges applies - 00-3,5 is constant density then 4-5 is plus one stop. Only in half-grade steps, but at least it avoids messing about trying to dial-in neutral density via the colour-head.

    Edit: The UK is a bit too far to drive from China - I thought you were in Paris, from the profile info!
     
  20. David Allen

    David Allen Member

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    Hi Jing,

    How is your install going?

    I look forward to meeting you and seeing your work at Helsingforser Platz.

    Until then,

    All the best,

    David
    www.dsallen.de