When does 35mm become Medium Format?

Discussion in 'Medium Format Cameras and Accessories' started by razzledog, Nov 18, 2008.

  1. razzledog

    razzledog Member

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    I recently finished a 'pet project' and built a cute 35mm panorama camera that shoots two full frames with a 40mm lens. This little camera has a wider view than I first thought it would and as it uses a medium format lens, does it qualify as an MF camera? Frame size is 24x72, wider than an X Pan.
     

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  2. 2F/2F

    2F/2F Member

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    I really don't think it matters what it is called, simply because it is so darned COOL!

    While it might as well be a medium format camera, I would say that the film used determines what format it is, so it is a small format camera with a 3:1 aspect ratio.

    You would get similarly sized pix at a similar price per roll by cropping down a 6x7 frame, but this thing's nice and beautiful design makes it very appealing.
     
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  3. Kevin Caulfield

    Kevin Caulfield Subscriber

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    Yes, I agree, and how can I buy one?
     
  4. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    Nomenclatures change, if you read older publications 35mm & 120 were both miniature formats :D

    I guess the frame height prevents it being MF, but 24x72mm is a great format, just a touch wider in aspect ration than a 6x17. Looks like it's a wonderful practical camera.

    Ian
     
  5. Antje

    Antje Member

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    This is soooo cool... I admire your work, I really do.

    Antje
     
  6. Loris Medici

    Loris Medici Member

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    Great work, congrats! Any sample images from that camera? Would love to see some...

    Regards,
    Loris.


     
  7. Jeff Kubach

    Jeff Kubach Member

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    The camera is neat looking! Looks like you do work. I love to see some images.

    Jeff
     
  8. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Great project. I've seen one or two pano cameras made out of two Nikon bodies back in the late 1970s or early 1980s.
     
  9. Rob Archer

    Rob Archer Member

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    Fantastic looking camera - I too look forward to seeing a few results. It's an interesting question - does my Bronica ETRSi cease to be a medium-format camera when I use a 35w panoramic back?

    Rob
     
  10. Fintan

    Fintan Member

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    Obsession 135 is a waay cool name, nice!!
     
  11. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    If I put a 6x7cm back on my 8x10" Sinar P, which I really do sometimes, then I say I'm shooting medium format with a large format camera. If I put a 6x17cm expansion back on my 4x5" Technika, then I say I'm shooting medium format with a large format camera, even though the medium format is wider than the large format.
     
  12. razzledog

    razzledog Member

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    Baby Panorama

    The key to this camera is finding the right stuff...what gave me the idea was finding the Meopta Proximus film holder/copier (part number 78414) at a Melbourne camera market. This supplied the body for the project. I already had a 40mm Bronica ETRS lens that was earmarked for a pano conversion to a Nimslo 3D camera. The plan was to open up the four frames into one, but that's another story :rolleyes:

    Next thing to do was to open out the single 35mm frame window on the Meopta body and make a lens cone. This is a fully seam welded 3mm thick box that's finally powder coated to suit the original body colour. There's no provision for focusing as I set the lens to it's hyperfocal distance. This is a great idea as focusing a camera like this is usually the biggest problem, but at f16 all is focused from around six feet on and at f22/f32 it just gets sharper.... I guess what really surprised me was how well the lens from a 645 camera covers a 72mm wide frame and renders so sharp an image at the corners. Very little distortion occurs at the outer edges too, as I usually find I get a stretching effect with 90mm lenses on the 6x17 format.

    A couple more things ...I needed to reposition the pressure plate, (it was originally set off centre for some reason) and fabricate a plate with rails for the film to run on. Advance is simply by counting two turns of the knob each time, getting around nine frames on a 24 shot roll and 14 on a 36. Rewind is achieved by pulling up the advance knob slightly, thereby releasing the take up bobbin.
    I have a 1.6mm (1/16th) thick spacer plate that slips in behind the film plate thereby allowing focus to 2-4 feet or so :wink: The pressure plate holds it all in place nicely.

    Setting up the lens was easy....simply by removing the cells from the Bronica helical and screwing them into any Copal 0 sized shutter takes care of their relationship and correct distance between the elements is maintained. For the finder I used a little Cokin magnetic wide angle video camera accessory lens and masked the frame to mimic the 24x72mm area using a ground glass.
    Add a couple of strap lugs and a tripod socket (so far all shots have been hand held) and we're ready to go.
    Now you can build one yourself......If you need any more info, just let me know. I'll post some images taken with this little gem shortly :D
     

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    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2008
  13. juanito

    juanito Member

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    Bravo!!!
     
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  15. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    Please send one to me so that that I can extensively test it so that I can make a proper determination.

    Steve
     
  16. Antje

    Antje Member

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    That's so totally unscientific. I'm appalled. We need at least, say, one hundred testers to say with some certainty that this apparatus actually performs... I volunteer - albeit reluctantly. :D

    Antje
     
  17. AutumnJazz

    AutumnJazz Member

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    How much did it end up costing you?
     
  18. NormanV

    NormanV Member

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    Hi Razzledog,
    with a short focal length lens the depth of focus is very short. How did you set it to achieve the required focal point? I am currently modifying a Nikon F to take a 15mm leica screw lens and the lens to focal plane distance is very critical (plus or minus .1mm) I find that quite tricky.
    Any help would be appreciated.
    Norman
     
  19. Ralph Javins

    Ralph Javins Member

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    Good morning;

    Nice work. Good to see creative thinking taking place with equipment in addition to the images of the subjects set before a camera.

    On the subject of nomenclature, I tend to be a bit conservative. You are still using 35 mm film cartridges for the film. While the film format may be a little longer, it is still 35 mm wide. In the original 35 mm format, it was intended for motion pictures, where the frame or image size was 18 mm by 24 mm with the remaining 11 mm of film width being used for the sprocket holes. Later they fitted in the sound track also. The image size we commonly think of in this forum is double that; 24 mm by 36 mm as intended for the original Leica. You are extending this concept from 24 mm by 36 mm out to 24 mm by 72 mm. You are using the film in a panorama camera application. It is an unusual application of the film, but I think that it is still 35 mm film.

    I would continue to use the designation 35 mm, perhaps adding panorama, but that is just my opinion.
     
  20. bnstein

    bnstein Member

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    Ok this presumably reflects some previous fiddling: I cant believe this just panned out! (Which Bronica lens for those of us of a destruct/reconstruct bent?)
     
  21. razzledog

    razzledog Member

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    The Fiddler?

    Probably a little more than fiddling......after manufacturing cameras in Australia for nigh on ten years, I guess I'd have to own up to doing this kinda stuff before....:tongue:
    I had a pretty good idea as to what the outcome might be, but the Bronica 40mm ETR lens did surprise me as I wasn't expecting such excellent coverage. If you Google 'Razzledog' you will find that I usually build Obsession 617's and Razzle 4x5's but the prospect of a smaller 35mm pano version rather turned me on. I also had hundreds of rolls of 35m film that was doing nothing..... 'necessity is the mother of invention' after all.
    The scans I have included are just from the two test rolls so far and prove that I should spend less time making cameras and get out more. :sad:
     

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  22. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Member

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    35mm film becomes medium format as soon as you load it into that fantastic camera.


    Steve.
     
  23. razzledog

    razzledog Member

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    Hi Norman. I use a fantastic downloadable program called 'DOF Master' as well as a ground glass screen and loupe. The rest is testing the theory by shooting some film and checking the actual sharpness on a lightbox :smile: Actually by using a shorter focal length lens the DOF becomes greater.
     
  24. razzledog

    razzledog Member

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    Cost of a baby

    I bought the Meopta film holder for $25....I bought the lens some time back for $80....the finder cost me $20 and the shutter, materials and outside expenses add up to no more than fifty bucks. I spent a couple of days in the machine shop screwing it all together :wink:
     
  25. Antje

    Antje Member

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    That looks really good. Love the camera store, how fitting! :wink:

    Antje
     
  26. razzledog

    razzledog Member

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    Thanks...The store is where I spend much of my life!