Where did my photos go?

Discussion in 'Rangefinder Forum' started by dagree, Aug 3, 2013.

  1. dagree

    dagree Member

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    Hi


    I have recently bought my very first analogue camera (a Konica C35 rangefinder). I'm an experienced digital photographer, but completely green when it comes to analogues cameras. Anyway, I took the camera for a spin and shot my first roll of film. However, when I had the pictures developed I only received 2 photos - the rest were blank. The two photos were in the X and 00 position (which I don't really know what means). Does anybody have an idea of what has gone wrong? Have I put in the film incorrectly? Or does it look like there's something wrong with the camera? I'm a bit puzzled as to why I got two pictures - which were the last two pictures I took before removing the roll. The only unusual thing I noticed when using the camera was that the film roll was for 24 pictures, but I kept being able to shoot after the 24 pictures were used.


    Does anybody have an idea of what has gone wrong and how I can fix it?
     
  2. David Brown

    David Brown Subscriber

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    No. We have no idea other than guesses because we do not have enough information. The camera could be defective. How? Who knows? You could have loaded the film wrong. You could have left the lens cap on. The exposures could have been so far off that nothing recorded on the film. Etc.

    Based on the fact that you went past the 24 mark, I'm "guessing" you loaded the film wrong. But, I could be wrong.
     
  3. BainDarret

    BainDarret Subscriber

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    I always confirm that the film is transporting by checking to see if the rewind knob moves as I advance the film.
     
  4. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    Did you leave the lens cap on?
     
  5. E. von Hoegh

    E. von Hoegh Member

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    Again, not enough info..
    Did you read the owners manual? IIRC this is an auto-only compact 35 - is the battery good?
     
  6. dagree

    dagree Member

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    Okay, I'm not sure what I wrote that made me deserve that kind of reply, David?


    But, anyway, some more info.
    - Yes I'm positive that I removed the lens cap for all shots.
    - The camera is quite automatic, and the exposure of the two pictures I got were spot on, so it should be working.
    - The lightmeter on the display move according to whether I point the camera at a light or dark area, so I'm guessing that the battery is also working - I put a new one in before testing the camera.


    As I said, I have never before used an analogue camera, so my main concern is that I have put in the film in an incorrect way. I have obviosuly looked in the manual, but it is difficult to know if everything is set up properly once I close the back. However, what puzzles me is that I got two good pictures anyway, as if the film "fell into place". Does the numbers X and 00 have any specific meaning or could it just be something specific for my film roll? If they designate the two first frames of the film, then perhaps the film just wasn't properly in place before, thus the empty frames. If they designate the last two frames, then some mechanical error could have occured during the first 22 frames.


    I'm not asking for a definite answer, but just input from more experienced users.
     
  7. E. von Hoegh

    E. von Hoegh Member

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    What type of film did you use? Is the film blank/clear, or is it black?
     
  8. dagree

    dagree Member

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  9. DWThomas

    DWThomas Subscriber

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    Typical 35mm films have frame numbers, both text and bar codes, installed on them by the manufacturer. The primary numbers are 1 -- 24 (12/20/36) working up from the leader end. I don't think it's consistent beyond that, but films I've seen have often had a frame 0 ahead of frame 1, and some may have a 00 (or maybe an X). In some cameras, if the end of the film is not adequately anchored to the take-up spindle, the film does not advance and you end up making 20/24/36 exposures on the first frame (not too useful!) We have all probably done that -- it's why some of us observe the rewind knob to see if it turns when we advance the film!

    In your case, it looks as though the film advanced one frame after the first shot, and then stopped. That seems less usual, but still suggests the film disconnected from the take-up, or else there is some other problem/camera malfunction. I'm not familiar with that camera -- some have a wind release button, usually recessed on the bottom plate to disconnect the wind function so you can rewind the film back into the cartridge when the roll is full. I could guess with some cameras accidentally pushing that might stop the winding process, but have no experience. (That must be one of the few mistakes I have not made!)

    If this is a camera where the film is advanced electrically, it would be harder to observe what's happening (but could be related to the problem). Do you have a manual for the camera? I would suggest trying some cheap film, following the loading instructions to the letter and see what happens. Some of these things are not easy to diagnose over the web.

    Edit: Can't see those negatives very well -- are they each a single exposure or does there appear to be multiples? If they are each a single exposure it might suggest the shutter has suddenly decided not to work. Unfortunately there's a long list of possibilities, some of which vary between cameras. Since many of these cameras are twenty to fifty or sixty years old, there can be just simple mechanical problems with delicate moving parts sticking because of thickened or dirt encrusted lubricants.

    Good luck, welcome to APUG, etc.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 3, 2013
  10. leicarfcam

    leicarfcam Member

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    Load a dummy roll and while advancing watch the rewind knob/lever. If it does not turn each time you advance the film either it is not loaded properly or the film transport is not working. You can check film transport by opening the back watching the takeup sprocket while advancing the film..
     
  11. clayne

    clayne Member

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    Yep use a throwaway roll to verify the camera's film transport works. I've seen advances where the first frame or so works but then slipping or ratchet failing starts happening as the slack is taken out of the roll. This is with cameras that have a clutch like (maybe not literally, but *like*) advance spindle for when it needs to be rewound.

    If its a camera issue I bet it coincides with when the roll has the slack taken out and the advance has to do real work.
     
  12. John Koehrer

    John Koehrer Subscriber

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    It does look like the film slipped off the take up spool.
    Someone else mentioned we've all done it. I know I have. :sad: Those, by the way were the best ones I had ever taken.(HA!)

    With a camera like this, I make sure the film is secure on the take up by advancing an extra frame, closing the back and putting tension on the film by turning the rewind knob in the direction of the arrow WITHOUT pushing the button on the bottom of the camera. Then, when you advance the camera, you should see the RW knob rotate.

    You say these were the last two frames you took. Were you watching the counter or did the camera stop advancing? If it stopped advancing, it get to the end of the roll. If you were watching the counter, it works even if the film isn't connected or even if the camera is empty.
     
  13. DWThomas

    DWThomas Subscriber

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    This is where I'm a bit confused by the OP. If the frame "0" is taken from the frame number on the film, it's at the leader end ("Beginning") which would fit with the film not fed. Now I believe there were some cameras, likely of the motor wound variety that when loaded would wind the film all the way to the end, then work backwards down to the leader. My last Konica was an FP SLR circa 1963, so I am not a fount of knowledge on the later flavors of the brand.
     
  14. chuck94022

    chuck94022 Subscriber

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    Ok, some interesting puzzles and clues here.

    Clues:
    1) The two frames properly exposed were the last two he said he shot. (Not the first two)
    2) The remaining frames are clear, not dark.
    3) There are no completely dark frames other than the remains of the roll after the last good frame, under the id tape.
    4) He was able to continue to wind past frame 24.

    The Konica C35 automatic is both sophisticated and not. From what I can tell on the web, not having owned one, it is an inexpensively built (cost reduced most likely) camera from Konica, possibly outsourced to Cosina or other manufacturer. It has a manual film advance, and does have a rewind crank that can be observed.

    I will take clue 1 at face value. Thus we assume he was able to advance the film.

    Clue 2 indicates that while the film advanced, the shutter did not open. I trust he removed the lens cap and didn't take the first shots in his darkroom with the lights out.

    Clue 3 indicates that the film did not stick on a frame and do 22 or more multiple exposures. There are no dark frames preceding the two good frames.

    Clue 4 is a puzzle, but not one that should stop us in our tracks.

    So, I mentioned the Konica is sophisticated. It appears to be a fully automatic camera. You don't get to control the exposure to any significant degree, other than setting the ISO. You don't get aperture priority, for example. If you can set the shutter speed at all, your choices are extremely limited (I'm unclear on exact shutter settings).

    My diagnosis, based on being blindfolded and only touching part of the elephant, is this: The shutter is gummed up. After about 22 shots, it finally freed up enough to respond to the shutter button. He got two exposures, but whether they were proper or not is not clear, since he was shooting C-41 color with it's extreme tolerance for exposure error. Looking at the film he provided they look quite dark, telling me the shutter was moving slow.

    I would say the camera is in need of a CLA. Why would it continue to wind and shoot after the last frame? I have no idea. It is designed as a point and shoot for unsophisticated photographers - maybe the winder allows this so that a naive consumer won't break the roll trying to force it to advance.

    Here's another puzzle: He said it was a roll of 24 frames. This is confusing to me, I don't know of any readily available 24 frame C-41 film. But I could be wrong, maybe the Lomo folks offer that.

    If this was in fact a roll of 36 frames, perhaps these shots were from the middle of the roll, the previous shots were severely over exposed (the clipped off black "leader"), and the blank frames are the frames he didn't shoot, thinking he was past the end of his 24 frame roll.

    But why the frames are marked 0 and X reduce the odds of the above being the case.

    In any case, if it is worth it, I would get a CLA done on the camera. But given that it is such a cheap little camera, it might not be worth it. Also, given that camera's limited functionality, I'd be going for something else anyway, like an Oly 35RD or equivalent, to allow for a little more control, with a faster lens.
     
  15. Peltigera

    Peltigera Member

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    Agfa Vista + film comes in 24 exposure cassettes. It is sold in Poundland in Britain (for £1.00!).
     
  16. pdeeh

    pdeeh Member

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    Not always in 24s, often in 36s (I have both at the moment)
     
  17. Bill Burk

    Bill Burk Subscriber

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    I have a theory that fits this.

    The film didn't catch the takeup spool when first loaded... but after some 20-or-so shots, it FINALLY caught and started winding...

    So it might have been good to go, but OP rewound and sent the film in for processing.

    ---
    All good advice to check the wind knob is turning as the shooting progresses. Good to check that the camera can make it through a roll of scrap film when properly loaded... But chances are... Next time you shoot... You'll get a good roll of film.
     
  18. dagree

    dagree Member

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    Wow, thanks for all the good replies. I spent last night experimenting with loading of the film, and I think you're right that that has been the problem. I wasn't aware of the trick of looking at the rewind button (but I am now, so thank you ;-)). I tried loading another film and saw that the rewind button wasn't turning when I took pictures, so I tried again loading the film, and this time it did turn!

    Thanks again for all the replies, it has helped A LOT.
     
  19. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    It looks like you have figured things out, but for clarity:

    There is both a film rewind button (on the bottom of the camera) and a film rewind crank (on the top of the camera).

    When you are at the end of the film, you push the button, and then rewind with the crank.

    As mentioned, to confirm that the film is winding properly, take up slack with the rewind crank and watch to make sure that the crank turns when you wind the film.

    I used to sell the C35 - in 1980 or so:blink:.

    Have fun!

    By the way, 24 exposure rolls are still around, although I'm not sure how widely available they are.

    And the C35 manual only refers to 20 and 36 exposure rolls!
     
  20. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    Did the rewind crank turn when you advanced the film? The film may have slipped off the spool.
     
  21. mesantacruz

    mesantacruz Subscriber

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    This is weird.. interesting.. but why was/would the film be loaded into film cassette backwards?

    IF the OP had gotten all his photos correctly... wouldn't they be marked 24 down to 1... then x/0.... Don't the images usually run 1-24?
    How much past 24 was he able to shoot?... being that 24 was his X was his last shot?...
     
  22. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Subscriber

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    Some electronic auto wind cameras per load/wind the entire roll onto the take up spool, and then as shot, the film is wound back into the cassette, this way if the back is opened by mistake, most of the images are safely inside the film cassette and not ruined. I don't know about this camera but maybe that's a feature of this camera?


    Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  23. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    No - not the C35.

    It has no power wind.
     
  24. DWThomas

    DWThomas Subscriber

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    You've had the same reaction I did, but I think maybe Bill Burk has the most likely scenario -- the film sat there (probably putting a couple dozen shots on the light struck leader), then started to move almost at the bitter end. So the last 24 frames of film never got out of the cassette. It's been a while, but I'm thinking the bar code label for processing usually gets put on the leader end, and that's on the short segment shown with the "two last shots."
     
  25. Paul Glover

    Paul Glover Member

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    That's the same thing I was thinking. It's easy to have the film pop out of the take-up spool. I keep my "36 frames on the leader"-oops roll around as a warning for the future, the film equivalent of Cromwell's head on a pole. I should probably cut and sleeve it, put it in an 8x10 frame and hang it on the wall. :D