Which chrome film?

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by Ed_Davor, May 17, 2006.

  1. Ed_Davor

    Ed_Davor Member

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    Hi there

    Pretty soon I'm entering MF world, and I already have some EPR and EPP stocked in the fridge in 120 format, but I feel I'd like to try something else...

    In 35mm I've used mostly new Kodak films like E100G, E100VS, EPY for indoors etc., plus Fuji Velvia 50, old Astia and Sensia 100

    But this summer I'd like to shoot some greenery. I've already asked a similar question in a previous thread, but it was about color neg, but I've decided to stay with E6 for the time being, so I'm asking about slide films this time...

    I'd like to try either Velvia 100F, 100, Provia 100F, or Astia 100F

    After I buy the camera, I'm going to buy some more film, this time Fuji, and I don't want to take one roll of each, because I want a whole bunch of it, so I don't have to buy every week (you have to oder in my town since they don't stock pro films)

    Here is what I want:

    Something that is going to have a lot of subtlety in gradations and exelent color separation (this is the imperative!).
    I want a thousand shades of green, violets, lavanders, blues etc.
    Plus really smooth gradations.
    Saturation is ok as long as it doesn't screw up the above aspects, I don't want it to look cartoonish.
    Nice color, as long as it feels realistic.

    Subjects are going to be mostly nature scenery, and light is going to involve a lot of magic hour shots, plus maybe some before/after storm light
    I've got the sunny part covered with films I like already.

    The problem is since magic hour becomes quite blue, some films tend to make everything look the same color, and you lose the fine distinctions between different shades of color.
    Now I want a slide film that will still distinguish every nuance of green plants, and sky colors, after the sun sets, but still get a colder feeling.

    Some more contrast is ok, as long as it is smooth and beautifull and doesn't feel rough like a bad print.

    I assume Astia 100F might do the job here but I don't know since I haven't used it, and I know so little about Provia 100F and 400F, so I don't know how would they perform,
    and I also don't know how Velvia 100F would perform.

    Now a word about Fuji films that i DID use, so you might better understand my needs:
    Velvia 50, well I find that it lacks the gentle touch (though not weak) that I am looking for for this kind of stuff, does Velvia 100 have more subtlety in it?
    I liked Sensia for this kind of stuff, though I felt it was a bit too warm, and if it had maybe a tad more contrast.

    Hope all of this is enough to help me out..

    thanks
     
  2. roteague

    roteague Member

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    Do not use Velvia 100F, you will be disappointed. Try using Velvia 100.
     
  3. Ed_Davor

    Ed_Davor Member

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    Why, what's wrong with it?
     
  4. Dave Parker

    Dave Parker Inactive

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    Saturation levels are not even and are not correct, contrast is terrible, just not a good film, very flat lacking contrast and shadow detail, I would not shoot it again and I have been a velvia shooter since the day it came out, of course I don't understand your comment about Sensia being to warm, I have always found it to be a very neutral film with no particular slant on color bias..

    Dave
     
  5. naturephoto1

    naturephoto1 Subscriber

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    I have yet to try Velvia 100, but I defer to Robert, we generally have similar tastes in our film selection.

    As to your comment that magic hour becomes quite blue that is not correct. Magic hour (or about an hour and a half twice a day) the time of about 1/2 hour before sunrise to the hour after sunrise and the hour before sunset to about 1/2 hour after sunset is warm in color. Depending on the morning/evening light and time the colors can vary between magentas and purples to reds, pinks, oranges, golds and yellows. If you are talking about shadow areas, then you are correct shadow areas shift to the blue end of the spectrum and many transparency films react heavily to those conditions. Between magic hour and magic hour the light is bluer and bluer until mid to late afternoon and then it decreases.

    Rich
     
  6. Dave Parker

    Dave Parker Inactive

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    I have to agree with Rich, if you understand how Fuji chrome film works, you will not have a strong blue bias to the film, you miss a shot by 1/2 to 1 stop, it will go blue on you, I started out with k12 and k14 films years ago and it had its problems as well most time heading into the red spectrum, fuji films always go into the blue spectram when under exposed, but as Rich said, the predominate colors in magic hour is warm and not cool.

    Dave
     
  7. agGNOME

    agGNOME Member

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    Good thing you have very seasoned color users to help you decide. In my experience with trans. film , I've used mostly 100 ProviaF and have found that it delivers pretty accurate colors with a subtle to pleasing saturation. At times I've noticed a slightly cool cast under strobes.
     
  8. agGNOME

    agGNOME Member

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    I just went and looked at some of my chromes, and I really like the provia's qualities (color balance/grain/saturation) as compared to astia , which is supposed to reproduce more accurate color. These aren't landscapes , but if you're interested Ed I can send you examples.
     
  9. HerrBremerhaven

    HerrBremerhaven Member

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    I am having some purple-ish skies from Velvia 100F during early night (just past sunset) exposures, so I will add to the other somewhat negative comments above. I am a huge fan of Astia 100F, especially for any more natural and subtle imagery.

    In just a green capture capability, I find that Kodak E100GX works very well. I had a tough green photographing an old Morgan sports car, and the 100GX got it exactly. It also worked quite well with foliage in trees, and deep green grassy areas. Might be the ultimate golf course film . . . .
    :D

    Something not mentioned yet is Kodak E200. This is a medium to low contrast colour film, really great for deep blue skies and long exposures. It also pushes quite well; I have had it 4 2/3 stops out (with compensation) on many shoots. My main usage for E200 is low light and night images, conditions when I have not found any other film that works quite this well.

    Ciao!

    Gordon
     
  10. agGNOME

    agGNOME Member

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    Hey Gordon, have you tried fuji or kodaks 64 tungsten films for this purpose?
     
  11. gr82bart

    gr82bart Subscriber

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    90% of my colour film is Kodak E100 or E200, so I can't really comment on a comparison to Fuji. I've been happy with the Kodak films. When I have used Fuji, have found that it doesn't have the same colour saturations I like in the Kodak films, but again, I haven't really tried them all or tried it extensively, so take this with a grain of salt.

    I also use a lot of Kodak Tungsten 160 for my twilight pictures. With Kodak E200, I find, when I need to, I can push the film 2 stops without much effect.

    Regards, Art.
     
  12. roteague

    roteague Member

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    Sorry I didn't answer your questions very well, I was on the way to a meeting when I saw your message.

    Both Dave and Rich provide really good responses why Velvia 100F is not a good choice - the colors are bland, particulary in the green response.

    I talked to the Fuji rep in Toronto about the 100F, and his response was that the film was intended for commercial photographers who needed accurate colors, with a higher level of saturation than Provia provides (personally, I think Fuji just misjudged the market). Regardless, 100F has not been well received by the nature/landscape community.

    I would suggest that you use either the 50 or 100 speed Velvia. The 100 Velvia is NOT the same film as the 50, and in many peoples opinion (including mine) not as good as the older film. However, since the 50 has been discountinued, we might as well get used to using it. I like the 100, but I feel that it is closer to Ektachrome 100VS in many ways, than the old 50. The 100 is better when you are shooting in low light - which you may find to be the case in a forest situation.

    However, I also suggest that rather than taking our advice, you buy yourself a small batch of both Velvia 100 and Provia 100F, and try for yourself. Film really is a personal choice, and you are the only one who can decide if it works for you or not.

    Two additional ideas for you; 1.) get yourself a warm polarizing filter - it does wonders on greens, giving plants an emerald green color, 2.) get a copy of Jack Dykinga's "Large Format Nature Photography"
     
  13. naturephoto1

    naturephoto1 Subscriber

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    Also, and in addition to the warm polarizing filter that Robert recommends, you will also want at least 1 or more (and possibly the reverse) graduated ND filters to "hold" exposure on the film in many lighting conditions. Only Singh-Ray offers the very specialized reverse graduated ND filters.

    Rich
     
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  15. HerrBremerhaven

    HerrBremerhaven Member

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    Hello Silver,

    I am actually eager to try the new Fuji ISO 64 Tungsten film, since it will be available in Quickloads. So I have not tried any of the Fuji Tungsten films, though I have used a few Kodak Tungsten films. The Kodak ISO 64 tungsten film is okay, though I find the grain more obvious than when using E200; the downside is no E200 in sizes larger than roll film (120 and 220). The worst, though usable, is 320T, which led to early push usage in 35mm.

    Mostly, the E200 was an odd solution for hand held low light imaging in 35mm and medium format. Kodak only lists specs for a two or three stop push, so I had to test to go further. What I found was a slight blue shift at higher push settings, meaning that an 80A was too much. The way I started on working out further push settings was by testing longer exposures at ISO 200 first; probably not a good approach, though I ended up where I wanted to get. In long exposures at ISO 200 there was also that blue shift, which I think helps some scenes.

    If it is tripod only, then I think the 64 tungsten films make more sense in night images. However, you would be selecting a different colour palette than using E200. What you accomplish is not using blue filters. I tend to use either a weak 82A, or slightly stronger 82B, and rarely ever an 80A. It probably is more of a personal preference on choices.

    So, hope that answered your question. Shame E200 is not in Readyloads.

    Ciao!

    Gordon
     
  16. Lachlan Young

    Lachlan Young Member

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    Astia 100F - I like the 'look' it gives better than any other chrome film when shot through my OM1n.

    Hope this helps,

    Lachlan
     
  17. Ed_Davor

    Ed_Davor Member

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    Thank's for all the replies

    You see, In my first post I said I don't want Velvia 50, because I want something with more subtlety, something a little more realistic.

    And as for Sensia being too warm, well I'm used to E100G, and that's sort of "neutral" in my head, and Sensia is warmer than that, so In my head its warm. Even though in reality it is the Sensia that is neutral, while E100G is a little colder.
    But I don't want 100% neutral, I want a little colder like E100G

    And as for magic hour, I'm sorry if I misused the word. I was refering to that time of day when the time has set, and all you get is soft blue dark skylight. I guess that's past magic hour. More like evening. That's what I want a film for.
     
  18. Ed_Davor

    Ed_Davor Member

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    aqGNOME, yes please send me examples of Provia 100F


    If Velvia 100 is much like Velvia 50, I have a feeling that what I'm looking for is either Provia 100F or Astia 100F
     
  19. agGNOME

    agGNOME Member

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    Hi Gordon & Art,
    Thanks for your comments. I haven't used E200 personally, but it seems like an interesting film. The blue cast that I've seen for long exposures with it is why I mentioned the Fuji 64T, which seems to have minimal color shift for long exposures. Provia 100f actually has good reciprocity characteristics as well, but I've never used it for long exposures so I can't comment on any color shift.

    Ed, I will work on getting the examples to you tonight, or may post them here.

    cheers everyone, Cameron
     
  20. Ed_Davor

    Ed_Davor Member

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    Post them here, it will be an interesting search result

    and thanks
     
  21. gr82bart

    gr82bart Subscriber

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    That's what I call twilight. This is where I use Kodak 160T Tungsten film. I've got a bunch of pics I recently had printed and I'll try to upload a couple images taken with 160T. I find that it mimics night time very well without actually shooting at night.

    Regards, Art.
     
  22. agGNOME

    agGNOME Member

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    Ok, so the following is hardly going to be a great basis for evaluation of Provia or Astia for many reasons, some of those are: low res. files, monitor & gamma differences (mac here), number of examples, subject/lighting/metering conditions will differ from yours.
    As everyone else would say the best thing is to try yourself, but some basic characteristics may help someone choose where to begin.
    As the person who shot these I can reflect on how the transparency compares to the original scene. In short, the Astia has a bit more accurate color fidelity, is lower in contrast, marginally better shadow detail, no 'enhanced' saturation and has a fairly neutral color balance ( maybe, just maybe a tinge green).
    The Provia, in comparison to the original scenes: also has very accurate color, is more saturated though not unnaturally so, and is noticeably sharper and finer grained.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 19, 2006
  23. agGNOME

    agGNOME Member

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    The last one is astia. Sorry, I didn't have more astia scanned.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 19, 2006
  24. Ed_Davor

    Ed_Davor Member

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    Thanks for the examples...

    How would you describe the difference between current Sensia and Astia 100F ?
     
  25. agGNOME

    agGNOME Member

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    Hi Ed, Sorry I've never used Sensia. Of the possible film choices you laid out, and considering your criteria I'd encourage you to pick up a roll of Provia and Astia and get started. Shoot the same scene on both...compare...conclude, and report back to share. Throw caution out the window...I don't think you will be disappointed with either film. Good Luck
     
  26. roteague

    roteague Member

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    Astia isn't a good film for landscape work, I think you will be disappointed; it was designed for product photography and won't capture the nuance of color you are looking for. Again, I suggest using either Velvia 100 or Provia 100.