Which developer for Agfa ortho rapidoline film (8x10) with jobo CPA-2 with lift

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Dave100, Nov 21, 2007.

  1. Dave100

    Dave100 Member

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    I am just getting into LF photography and bought a jobo cpa2 with the lift. I also got some inexpensive (though about 5 or more years old) Agfa ortho F0-71p rapidoline (possibly lith) 8x10 film. I do not know if it is continuous tone (though the sparse instructions suggests that it is not). My question is what developer should I use to develop this film if I want to achieve a more continuous tone look for portraits and the like (rodinal, D76, etc.)? Also what dilution and time should I use and how many ML per 8x10 sheet of film should I use in the expert drum (I am using a 3005 expert drum with the cpa2). I realize that this is a starting point and that I will have to do some experimenting to get results, but I do appreciate some starting help.

    Thanks

    Dave
     
  2. rtuttle

    rtuttle Member

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    I think it maybe older than 5 years. Rapidoline I think was a process that used what is similar in photography terms as the stabilization process. This film might respond in Rodinal but there isn't going to be a starting point, that is going to be up to you figure out. Agfa hasn't made any lith chemistry in a few years either. It would be interesting to see how it works out. Through out the 80's and 90's Agfa had Lith Chemistry, Agfastar (a lith rapid access hybrid), Rapid Access and Rapidoprint. Now I believe they only have rapid access G101c and G101p.
     
  3. Dave100

    Dave100 Member

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    What I am trying to do is get more steps out of this film than is ordinarily possible. I vaguely remember reading that there are developers that can be used with this kind of slow film to give a more continuous tone result (though probably highly diluted). I just don't know where to start. Seems like a waste to not use this many 8x10 sheet film (200 of them) so I am trying to find a non graphical lith use.
     
  4. eworkman

    eworkman Member

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    Most reports for film of this apparent type rate it in single digit EIs. I'd try Rodinal at 1 to at least 100 and EI 5 or so, and minimal agitation. So if you are going to Jobo it, maybe 1:200
     
  5. rtuttle

    rtuttle Member

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    the minute that type of film isn't developed in a highly concentrated and 100 degree developer you gain tonal scale. That's how in this business we know when things are amiss. In graphic arts you expose a step wedge and want the first 5 or so steps black then 1 half solid and then clear all the way to DMax. When your chemistry starts getting weak you end up with say a solid second or third step then 2 or 3 half solids then clear. Same thing happens if your processor goes out of wack. So, if you start with Rodinal in say 50:1 and 70 degrees your going to get scale right off. However, it's never going to have the degree of tonality standard black and white film has, it's just it's nature. But you can get some interesting affects I'm sure. I too have read that the EI for this type of film is roughly between 3 and 10 iso. That sounds about right for I used to expose this film for around 10 seconds with 4 1k lamps lighting the copy.
     
  6. Dave100

    Dave100 Member

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    Iso 10 is about right for this film. It should give some very fine grain. I am a bit worried about rotary processing but for the moment trays are out of the question. At some point I may try to same combination with Efke, but as I said it would be a shame to waste the film so I'm experimenting. I'll try in increments of 50, 75, 100, 125, and 150 rodinal to see what results are yielded.
     
  7. rwyoung

    rwyoung Member

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    I've done Freestyle APHS using the formula suggested by Jim Gali. Search the forums and you will probably find the link to his formula. It is 1+200 Rodinal plus some restrainer. I did this in open trays under a safelight and it worked pretty well.
     
  8. Dave100

    Dave100 Member

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    "It is 1+200 Rodinal plus some restrainer"

    Which restrainer were you using?
     
  9. rwyoung

    rwyoung Member

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    The forumula for Galiol is:
    5cc Rodinal
    20cc 0.2% Benzotriazole
    4cc 0.1% Potassium Iodide
    H2O to make 1000cc

    I mixed my Benzotriazole to a 1% solution so I use 4cc instead of 20cc. And my KI is mixed at 1% so I use 0.4cc instead of 4cc. I'm using syringes to pull these from the bottles. I don't think it is terribly critical that you exactly hit the mark, just be consistent.

    Jim suggests and I strongly second, that you do a good presoak to get rid of the backing. I've been soaking for 1:30 plus agitation, dump the tray and soak again for 1:30. Then a dump and 3rd rinse. Then I pour in the developer and agitate until I see the highlights come up (working under safelight by the way). Then keep agitating for 3x the highlight visible time. This means somewhere between 6 and 8 minutes. I hit 7 minutes pretty consistently.

    Dump the developer and use water as the stop bath. Several changes over a couple of minutes. Then into the fixer. I've been fixing for 6 mintes. Then short rinse, HCA and 10 minute wash. YMMV on the wash.
     
  10. Dave100

    Dave100 Member

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    Thanks rwyoung, I'll give it a shot. Though this seems to be a color by tray inspection option. I suppose if I get a consistent enough timing/results I can then use that as my starting point in my jobo rotary on slow rotation.