Which Kodak C-41 chemicals for Jobo?

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by Oren Grad, Aug 12, 2007.

  1. Oren Grad

    Oren Grad Subscriber

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    Exactly which Kodak-branded chemicals would I need to try my hand at C-41 in my Jobo?

    So far, Calumet is the only supplier I can find that both lists in-stock status and is willing to ship. I've looked at the Kodak C-41 literature, but the product names they mention don't always exactly match the item names listed by Calumet. Any help in picking out what's needed from the Calumet listing would be much appreciated.

    (Yes, I'm aware of the Tetenal kits.)
     
  2. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Flexicolor developer 1 gal, #192 7698
    Bleach III, 1 gal, #894 0801
    Stabilzer #856 8792

    Stop, if needed is 2% acetic acid.

    PE
     
  3. Nick Zentena

    Nick Zentena Member

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    Does he need the stabilzer now? How about a fix?
     
  4. Oren Grad

    Oren Grad Subscriber

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    Many thanks.

    Adorama lists the developer and bleach by those stock numbers, but not the stabilizer. They do show a C41 Stabilizer/Replenisher 5L (Kodak #8673170) and a Flexicolor Final Rinse and Replenisher 10L (Kodak #8136368). Is either an appropriate substitute?

    And to follow up on Nick's point, they also show Flexicolor Fixer/Replenisher 5L (Kodak #1983550) and Flexicolor Fixer/Replenisher 5 gal (Kodak #1693837). Is either of those needed?
     
  5. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Sorry, but I don't have a fix here and don't have the part # for it. The final rinse is necessary for all modern films, a stabilzer is needed for older films. The old stabilzer will work for all films, but the final rinse will only work with modern films.

    So, you need a fix and final rinse or stabilzer, the choice of the latter two depends on the age of the film you are processing. The cutoff date was around 2000 or so, but more detail should be found on the EK web site.

    The part # above is for Final Rinse not stabilzer. Sorry for the error in name.

    The old stabilzer is less than 3% formalin in regular photo flo if you want to mix your own. I don't have the actual formula handy for it.

    PE
     
  6. langedp

    langedp Member

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    I use the Kodak Flexicolor chemicals in the one gallon size as mentioned above as well as the Flexicolor fixer. The stabilizer makes 5L and I use that as well outside the Jobo tanks. The developer and fixer are relatively inexpensive but the bleach is a bit pricey. I get all mine from Adorama and they do ship UPS ground.
     
  7. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    Owen
    I used the Kodak chems on the Jobo for years , very reliable, I now am switching to Fuji as they give me an account and have excellent customer service here in Toronto.
    If you are having any problems with getting the Kodak chems , I can provide you with the Fuji code numbers for Jobo one shot processing.
     
  8. Nick Zentena

    Nick Zentena Member

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    Bob are you one shotting everything? I replenish the Fuji bleach and fix.
     
  9. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    Nick
    Yes, we do not replenish any chemicals on our Jobo's, never have, probably that is why we are expensive to some, but I have to say we do get repeate customers since we installed the Jobo in 94.
    If you are only running your own film I do not see any problem in what you are doing unless you are really trying to stretch out the chems.
    Bob
     
  10. Peter De Smidt

    Peter De Smidt Member

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    Hi Bob,

    I'd like to know the Fuji equivalents.

    Regards,
    Peter
     
  11. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    I will post them mon for you Peter going home shortly
    Bob
     
  12. Nick Zentena

    Nick Zentena Member

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    No I'm replenishing according to Fuji's guidelines. I made up a litre of bleach and a litre of fix to start. After every batch of film I draw off the suggested amounts and replace with replenisher.
     
  13. Oren Grad

    Oren Grad Subscriber

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    Thanks, everyone.

    Nick, where do you obtain the Fuji chemicals?
     
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  15. Nick Zentena

    Nick Zentena Member

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    I got mine from a local place that buys/sells used mini-labs.

    I think what happened is he got a bunch of chemicals from a lab when they switched over to a Frontier and he bought their old machine. He stuck the lot on Ebay with a lousy picture and no description. So I emailed him and turned out he was just a block away. His main interest was getting the store room empty. I walked out with a fair bit of C-41 and RA-4 chemicals for $25. He was happy and so was. :D It was a bit of a odd lot. No C-41 developer. But lots of fix and bleach.

    I went to the Fuji-Hunt website and download all the documents and had to figure out how to convert stuff aimed at a four tank mini-lab to Jobo tanks. Easy enough when I figured I could skip the blix tank and just use longer bleach and fix steps.
     
  16. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    Peter
    As promised here are the Fuji Cat numbers

    Negacolour Dev - 816514-part A,B & C
    Negacolour Starter - 816469
    Negacolour Bleach - 821955
    Ultraneg Starter - 821952
    Negacolour Fixer- 822373

    Nick, since we do not do large volumes of C41 on a consistant day to day basis we run one shot for our own piece of mind. If we were running C41 film on a regular basis we would probably replenish the bleach as it is so damm expensive.

     
  17. Photo Engineer

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    I wonder if you need the starter Bob for just a Jobo process. Also, I wonder if you need a stabilzer or final rinse.

    PE
     
  18. Nick Zentena

    Nick Zentena Member

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    My understanding was the bleach likes to be aerated. The main life problems are if you make a blix but normal bleach keeps.

    At least I thought that was normal. :confused:
     
  19. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    Thats a good question Ron,
    I wondered about that too.
    When mixing fresh chems we use a starter basically to cool down the development , ie not running to agressively.* I know this is non tech talk but bear with me. Therefore the thinking is that using one shot chemicals is basically like preparing a working tank each and every time.
    I would love not to use the starter and would appreciate your thoughts/comments on using a starter for one shot C41 developing.
    Bob
     
  20. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    Nick
    My only problem with a replenished line is the chemical overflow from one to another and the affect of volumes of film on any chemical. I prefer the one shot mixture for the previous reasons and my percieved thoughts of byproducts of development screwing up the subsequent chemicals.

    Ron , what do you think about one shot, vs a replenished line for the above reasoning?
     
  21. Peter De Smidt

    Peter De Smidt Member

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    Bob,

    Thanks for the Fuji?Hunt product numbers!

    -Peter
     
  22. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Bob;

    The Kodak part # I gave makes 1 gallon (3.8 L) of developer that seems to exactly match the local shops process, but I don't use starter and AFAIK he does. This question of starter, no starter keeps coming up. The formulas as we mix them and devise them in research do not use a starter and are designed to match the seasoned process. So, I'm not sure what the starter is designed to do except that the developer replenisher is more concentrated with developing agent and halide salts and the starter essentially dilutes that. I would say try to avoid a developer that requires a starter.

    As far as final rinse goes, IDK what Fuji suggests, but Kodak uses a dye and coupler stabilzer and a fungicide in their final rinse. B&W films contain silver which is a good fungicide, but color contains things that fungi seem to love. So, the idea of a final rinse is logical to me.

    Since the Kodak product is proprietary, I would guess that Fuji has some sort of equivalent mix.

    PE
     
  23. Nick Zentena

    Nick Zentena Member

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    I don't know if I got the idea from a Kodak document or somebody else but my process is basically

    Developer

    Stop

    Wash

    Bleach

    Wash

    Fix

    Wash

    Stabilizer.

    It's longer but it replaces the squeegies a machine would use with wash steps. The worry is the water carry over dilutes the next step. :surprised: Always some thing -)
     
  24. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    Ron
    I just got off the phone with my tech rep, regarding why starter.
    Fuji only sell replenishers for dev and bleach, the starter is to make a working tank solution.
    It is not good to run replenishers only as it would be to *active*
    He says that consider one shot as making a working tank solution each time.
    Therefore folks use the starter if you are doing a one shot method, If you are replenishing the chemicals as Nick is then you need the starter for your first mix and then replenish as needed.
    Once the 1litre combination is established its just a matter of staying within a 3-6% mixing tolerance, all things considered, temp time, He also says the agitation in the rotary processors have the most effect.
    Further he said 95% of all development is finished in the first 25seconds and the rest is tailoring.
    Pushing the time can add some *percieved* dmax , but too much push will not be good. I am thinking 1 stop max.
     
  25. Photo Engineer

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    Thanks Bob.

    Apparently, Kodak makes a working strength developer kit that does not require starter as well as a kit that requires starter.

    To be absolutely clear, the part number that I gave is for the Kodak product that does not require starter for use in the Jobo.

    PE
     
  26. donbga

    donbga Member

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