Why Not Enlarge on Azo?

Discussion in 'Enlarging' started by jon koss, Jun 18, 2005.

  1. jon koss

    jon koss Subscriber

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    Are there any reasons not to enlarge onto Azo other than excessive exposure time? My cold light enlarger was burning holes in my easel until I hooked it to a rheostat, so I have begun to wonder if it might have enough oomph to enlarge successfully onto Azo.

    jk
     
  2. Flotsam

    Flotsam Member

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    I believe that Michael A. Smith mentioned someone making an enlarger with a light source powerful enough to enlarge on Azo.
    And someday maybe we will find out whether Sean's monster enlarger can print 8x10 negs onto big Azo paper. I keep looking for a glow in the Southwestern sky :smile:
     
  3. Frank F

    Frank F Member

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    While there ar epeople out there that say it is impossible, that sounds like baloney. The stuff is sensitive to photons. So why not enlarge?

    It is slow. Somone told me ISO 6. COmpalre this to what I remember Ilford MGiv at 160. It is slow.

    It may also be more blue sensitive. I have seen some indirect evidence of this.

    Anyway, I plan on doing AZO enlargemtns, and if it takes 3 minute enlarger exposiures, I am in no big rush.....
     
  4. colivet

    colivet Member

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    I have a 300 light bulb halogen bulb hanging 4 feet from the printing glass. Some negatives take up to 4 minutes to expose. Good luck with the enlarger!
     
  5. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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  6. Donald Miller

    Donald Miller Member

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    There are a couple of reasons that typical enlargers don't work well for enlarging Azo. The first is what someone has already mentioned...the speed of the paper is slow. Secondly Azo is most sensitive to UVA emissions (350-410nm) So conventional cold light heads and halogen lamps don't emit the proper spectrum of light.

    Having said that there are ways of enlarging on Azo. They amount to these:
    Michael Smith is handling a 4X5 Azo head for Omega and Bessler (one left at last report)...I think the cost is up around $2,000. Jensen Optical has an 8X10 Azo Durst enlarger that will set you back about $13,000. Some folks are talking about using a spiral BLB bulb but I have questions about eveness of coverage with that. Those appear to be the options.
     
  7. John Bartley

    John Bartley Member

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    I wish I could get to 1/2 that time. Right now my average AZO contact time is around 5 seconds and that's using a 250W 3400K incandescant at about 30". My negatives "must" be too thin.
    As per recent good advice, I think I'll try "thickening" them up a bit.

    cheers
     
  8. noseoil

    noseoil Member

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    John, for thin film I use a 25w bulb in a conventional metal flood lamp holder (spun aluminum type, hardware store). Although the output is puny, the prints are fine. tim
     
  9. JohnArs

    JohnArs Subscriber

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    Hi

    I did in the past printing on AZO true my Jobo LPL enlarger with a 250 watt lamp but with the blue put in on my colorhead and I got times from 1 1/2 to 3 minutes but it worked only with relativ thin negs!
    But for me ist 8x10 to small and for larger it would not work!
     
  10. Will S

    Will S Member

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    If I might make a somewhat obvious observation, an enlarger head capable of enlarging to AZO that cost less than a used car (my current vehicle is valued at around $500 for example) would greatly increase the sales of AZO.

    Remember, you give the razor away free and sell the blades...

    Just in case anyone is listening..

    Thanks,

    Will
     
  11. Donald Miller

    Donald Miller Member

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    Azo is going away...why should anyone want to sell more Azo when no more is being manufactured?
     
  12. Will S

    Will S Member

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    I'm just guessing that in all likelyhood someone else is thinking about manufacturing a silver chloride paper. Whether it is AZO or something similar who can say?
     
  13. Michael A. Smith

    Michael A. Smith Subscriber

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    Don, there will be silver chloride paper with Azo characteristics.

    I agree about the price of the enlarging head. I did not set the price. If enough units can be sold the cost would come down significantly. I will ask the inventor at what sales volume could the price drop. All reports from users so far indicate that the results using this new light head are excellent.
     
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  15. Donald Miller

    Donald Miller Member

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    Michael,

    I am happy to hear that. My point was directed to the comment that the head should be discounted or given away in order to sell more Azo. That is all that I was commenting on. The comparison to razors and razor blades seemed like faulty economics to me.
     
  16. Mongo

    Mongo Member

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    The razor/razor blade economic theory only works if the same person is selling both. Since Michael's only acting as a distributor for the enlarging heads, he isn't in a position to set prices to generate more Azo sales; I'm sure the person making the heads wants to generate as much profit as possible and has set a price point that he/she believes will accomplish that.

    I've done lots of contact prints onto Azo and I absolutely love the paper. I wish I could use it for enlargements, but unless I figure out how to build my own enlarger head I'll be stuck with contact printing only, as the current enlarger head is way out of my price range. I love contact printing onto Azo...but I'd love to open up more options for myself with the paper. For now, though, I'm just happy that I have Azo available to work with.
     
  17. Frank F

    Frank F Member

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    Kodak listened.. they are discontinuing the AZO paper. Not the result you were thinking of?

    So we have direct proof you CAN enlarge onto AZO. It just takes exposures of several minutes. What I do not understand is why that is a problem. SUre, it takes a while, but why would you be in a wet darkroom if you are in a rush? The enlarger is stable, so long exposures should not be an issue. BTW, if you were contact printing with your enlarger as the light source, the times would be the same. It is only with a bare bulb that you get shorter times.....because you can use a brighter bulb.

    It is all a matter of patience, vs a big negative.
     
  18. snaggs

    snaggs Member

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    I dont see why you couldn't enlarge either.. what is this Azo stuff anyways? Im just in the process of building my first darkroom, I'd rather just learn to use the right paper from the start.. If I was in a hurry Id be using my Inkjet.

    I had been told that Oriental Seagull Fibre was the best paper.. is Azo better than this?

    Daniel.
     
  19. kudzma

    kudzma Member

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    Regarding exposure times with a suitable bulb, I think a several minute exposure in no problem at all. When I print Pd/Pt my exposures in a BL fluorescent bulb box are 20 min and up. Not a problem. Do something else while it cooks.

    I am the one that started a thread about using a spiral BLB fluorescent in an enlarger in the Azo Forum (http://www.michaelandpaula.com/mp/AzoForum)and I assure you it works with the right diffusion to even the light. Print times are slower than what you might be used to for regular silver printing but reasonable.
     
  20. Michael A. Smith

    Michael A. Smith Subscriber

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    With the new enlarging light head exposures are in the 20-45 second range.
     
  21. Richard Wasserman

    Richard Wasserman Member

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    I'm going to make a head for my Durst 138 using 4 20 watt spiral black light flourescent bulbs. I've been wanting to do this for a while, but haven't had the time. Things are a bit calmer here now and I hope to put something together as a test in the next few days. I hope to get fairly short exposure times using 4 bulbs- I'll report back when I have some results to share.

    Richard
     
  22. David

    David Member

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    Please do report back on the Durst 138 including and diagrams for constructing the box. Thank you.
     
  23. Will S

    Will S Member

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    Maybe make one of the 4 white light with a switch for focusing? Or do you have a different solution for that?

    I might buy an old D2V head for this purpose if I can find one. Any suggestions on what to use for diffusion material that will let through yet diffuse the UV?

    Thanks,

    Will
     
  24. Frank F

    Frank F Member

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    You will not like this answer.... quartz diffuer.

    UV will pass through Quartz, at almost 100% transmission. Now where to find diffused quartz in a 5-6 inch diameter disck?

    I think you are worrying too much.. get some diffused glass cut to size ( do NOT use plexiglass or other plastic, as it absorbs too much of the uV). You may get some attenuation, but you can still print through it...
     
  25. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Very easy: Mineral dealers. What you're describing is a slab of dull, boring agate that won't take a colour, and they can't sell do anyone else.

    It doesn't have to be "quartz glass" ( = fused silica), microcrystalline quartz diffuses just as well.
     
  26. gnashings

    gnashings Inactive

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    I don't think many people want to do that - they want you to buy the "electric" shaver... Especially Kodak. Too bad, AZO was something that I was putting on my "to do" list when I manage to put together a LF rig... but by that time, it will be a dodo bird...
    So I wouldn't hold my breath on that enlarger head. What you put forth is an excellent idea, problem is you are forgetting that we are currently the baby being thrown out with the bathwater...