Wild Guess at a starting time

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by jd callow, Jun 21, 2008.

  1. jd callow

    jd callow Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I'm going to to develop some tx rated at 400 in dektol 1:9 semi stand (agitation every 5 min's for 10 sec's)

    Please give me your best guess for time.


    jdc
     
  2. glbeas

    glbeas Member

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    I used to do the sheet film 4 min at 70F at about 1:4 dilution if thats a help.
     
  3. bowzart

    bowzart Member

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    I'd sure run a test exposure sequence first from zone 0 or even -0 through zone 11 or so, write the numbers on the frames with a sharpie, and make a contact print at the minimum time needed to get the edge of the film to equal the pure black of the paper - using my standard paper. That will give you an idea. Otherwise, I wouldn't know what to suggest. That's what I do, and it doesn't matter whether I'm close or not. I just change as needed, test again, and start using it in practice as I tune it.

    If you are using cut film holders, you can use the darkslide to progressively double your exposure by moving it in increments. This was proposed in the first edition of Minor White's Zone System Manual. It does introduce inaccuracy through the intermitency effect, but for starters it will be adequate.

    I've used dektol that way in the past, but with the addition of acetone. That increases the pH sharply. I didn't use it a lot, and it was so long ago I don't remember much except that it was a very decent developer. There was a fellow in the Bay Area in the 1960's named Don Ross who I understand used it, and he had some standing as a technical expert at the time; I still remember his images, and they were fine, too. The acetone breaks the sodium sulphite up and you get NaOH.
     
  4. jd callow

    jd callow Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Thanks bowzart, Gary. I'm pretty confident I can identify a neg I can print -- or in my case contact. This is just a game to get me to the starting point.
     
  5. sun of sand

    sun of sand Member

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    1:9 is what I use with kodalith so it seems pretty dilute for use with Tri-X and the stagnant development would take even longer
    My crazy wild guess would be 11 minutes
    Then I'd do 14
    Then I'd do 22
     
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  6. jd callow

    jd callow Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I think at 1:9 I'd be more inclined to start @ 22 mins and with the agitation coming in 5's and being so short 25mins would be better still -- Yes No?
     
  7. sun of sand

    sun of sand Member

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    probably
    I always start with a lowball and work up

    never done stand development
    with 1 4x5 id "do" 11, 15, 22, 34, 60
    cut each time off the sheet and fix for couple minutes until got a good negative
    it should be pretty easy to tell where your next time check should be
    If nothing on the film at 11 you can skip the 15 and go straight to 20 or so ..and on and on

    that way you don't waste 3 hours developing separate films

    i like games
     
  8. jd callow

    jd callow Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I think I'll follow your technique
     
  9. sun of sand

    sun of sand Member

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    oh that's no technique
    I think I might try it later tonight
    never used dektol on film before
     
  10. jd callow

    jd callow Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    So here is the plan 2 sheets exposed @400. One souped in a tray of dektol 1:9. agitated fro 10 sec every 5 mins a snip from the neg will be fixed and tested @12.5, and then based upon the results film will be developed onward. The second sheet will be used to confirm the time found in the first.

    The hope/assumption is that 1:9 is dilute enough to become exhausted in the highlights but thick enough to develop the mids and shadows every 5mins.
     
  11. jd callow

    jd callow Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Good call son o sand
    10 mins was the winner 11 would probably work as well. The negs had really nice tonality, fairly normal contrast, and tight grain. This presents a bit of a problem as I was hoping for grittier/grainier neg and longer development times. My ultimate goal was to pull the film as much as I could (3 or 4 stops?) with matched development so I'd wind up with very flat, very grainy negs.

    I think I'll try 1:19 dilution...
     
  12. jd callow

    jd callow Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Ok after further testing 20mins at 1:19 was good for box speed. I suspect that I could get far better than box speed with this dev. I just finished a 2 stop pull film rated @100, dev for 12mins semi stand. the grain looks tight the negs look really punchy -- shot at dusk so they should have punch -- all in all really good, but not what I'm after. This semi stand thing is the shit especially for the lazy, but in this instance I want grain, big articulate grain -- I guess dektol's grain is one of those internet myths...
     
  13. TheFlyingCamera

    TheFlyingCamera Membership Council Council

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    JD- if you want grain from Dektol, you need to use it concentrated, not dilute. Try 1:3, for maybe 3 mins or so. That's what I used to use on Tmax 3200, rated at 1000.
     
  14. jd callow

    jd callow Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    1:3 would produce far too short a develoment time for what I'm trying to do... Thanx though
     
  15. TheFlyingCamera

    TheFlyingCamera Membership Council Council

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    I figured as much, since you were talking about controlling highlights with semi-stand. Dektol will produce grain - but it must be concentrated, which yields SHORT development times. It's like Rodinal that way- strong concentration=grain the size of baseballs, but almost uncontrollable dev times.