Will a 14 inch Trigor cover 11x14 or more?

Discussion in 'Ultra Large Format Cameras and Accessories' started by Doug Webb, May 23, 2006.

  1. Doug Webb

    Doug Webb Member

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    Hi,
    I want to move up to 11x14, possibly 8x20 or 12x20. I want to know whether one of the lenses I have will cover these formats so that I can calculate part of the cost of moving up in format. I have a 14inch F:11 Trigor that I know will cover 8x10, my question is will it cover the larger formats with room for movement. It is a blue dot Trigor, with the lens marked Schneider Corp. of America, serial # 2001507, lens made in Switzerland, and it is a barrel lens, no shutter. I know that the lens came off of a copy camera and the mounting bracket that the flange attached to has "W.A. Dagor" on it. I assmue that the lens formula is related to a Dagor or Wide Angle Dagor, it seems to have a much wider image circle than a 14inch Artar but the images look sharp, like an Artar. I don't know if this is a different version of Trigor lens from what I assume was a Goerz Trigor. I say that because I understand the 14 inch Schneider Dagor, for example, had a narrower image circle from the Goerz 14" Dagor. If possible I would like to hear from someone who has actually used this lens on a larger format.
    Thanks very much.
    Doug Webb
     
  2. QualityCamera

    QualityCamera Member

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    Doug

    The 14" Trigor will not cover 11X14. It covers 8X10 with nice movement. The lens was made for Schneider by Kern and has coverage very much like the 14" Gold Dot Dagor also made by Kern for Schneider.
     
  3. Wayne

    Wayne Subscriber

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    If you can find him. I've only heard of 2 or 3 people ever using one.

    I have had a minty 14 inch Trigor sitting here for several years, waiting till I can put it in a shutter. Since I have a 12 inch lens already I havent been in a rush. I suppose I should at least stick it in my iris diaphram and make a hat exposure while saving up.


    Wayne
     
  4. RobertP

    RobertP Subscriber

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    I have a 14" Blue Dot Trigor. It covers my 8x20 with some movements. Amazing little lens. Covers like a Dagor and almost as sharp as an Artar
     
  5. Dave Wooten

    Dave Wooten Subscriber

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    Welcome Quality Camera....it is good to see you here..

    Dave in Vegas
     
  6. jimgalli

    jimgalli Subscriber

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    I have one and have used it on 7X17 which is slightly longer diagonal than 1114. Haven't used on the 8X20 though.
     
  7. Steve Hamley

    Steve Hamley Member

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    It should. I don't have the Trigor but I do have a 14" Kern Gold Dot Dagor.

    My "envelope" calculations say that the diagonal of 8x20 is about 21.5" (In reality a bit less than this), and for a 14" lens to cover, it needs to cover about 72.5 degrees. I can't imagine a Dagor not covering 72 degrees sharply, even with the rumors of reduced coverage in the Kern lenses.

    Steve
     
  8. QualityCamera

    QualityCamera Member

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    Dave, Thanks for the welcome.

    I certainly did not intend for my first post to be a contraversial one. Over the years, we have handled perhaps a half dozen 14" Trigors and many, many of the Kern Gold Dot Dagors. I suppose that "coverage" would be a matter of opinion. Our experience has been that the Trigor and Kern Dagor are very similar lenses and that neither lens offers as large a usable image circle as the 355 G-Claron. We are aware that lenses vary some from sample to sample and would certainly encourage Doug to test his own example for himself. If he is pleased with the results, that is really all that matters. Perhaps I misunderstood his question, however we would not suggest that a person buy an 11X14, 8X20, or 12X20 camera because they hoped to cover the format (with room for movements) with a 14" Trigor.
     
  9. Steve Hamley

    Steve Hamley Member

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    Hey QC, welcome! If you're Jeff W., hello from your old stomping grounds in Knoxville.

    You didn't start the controversy on coverage of the Schneider Dagors and Trigors, it's been going on long time. Most users report what you have, they are 8x10 lenses and would probably cover 11x14 with no movement. However, they've also been reported as 80 degree lenses, which at 14" should easily cover 8x20. Robert reports his Trigor covers 8x20 with movement which would suggest expected (80 degree) coverage - but IIRC his is not a Schneider Kern Trigor. To cover a 540mm image corcle a 14" lens needs about 74 degrees of coverage.

    So the reports of actual coverage of the Kern lenses seem to be inconsistent with reported specifications and reasonable angles of coverage for Dagors in general.

    Can you tell any coverage difference between the barrel and shuttered versions of the Schneider/Kern lenses or between the Schneider/Kern Dagors and Schneider/Kern Trigors?

    Steve
     
  10. Kerik

    Kerik Member

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    I've never used a Trigor, but I had a Kern 14" Dagor briefly. It 'covered' 7x17 but was unacceptably soft in the corners. My crusty old Goerz 14" dagor with some front cell separation puts the Kern to shame. And it easily covers 14x17.
     
  11. sanking

    sanking Member

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    Same here. I replaced the Kern 14" Dagor with a 305mm G-Claron and got a lot more coverage, even with the shorter focal length. Then I replaced the 305 g-Claron with a 305mm Computar, and got a lot more coverage still.

    As for the older Dagors, just be aware that actual coverage is all over the book. I have seen some 12" and 14" Dagors that will cover 12X20, and a 16.5" Dagor that vignetted severely on this format. So my advice would be to never make any assumptions about Dagors. These lenses were made for almost 100 years by dozens of different manufacturers in the US and in Europe and they do vary tremendously in terms of both coverage and performance.

    However, the 14" Kern Dagor is widely known to offer much less coverage than most of the older 14" Dagors and I would not consider it a very useful lens for ULF work in 11X14 or 7X17 and larger.


    Sandy