Wisner 140deg Hypergon

Discussion in 'Large Format Cameras and Accessories' started by Francesco, Feb 8, 2004.

  1. Francesco

    Francesco Member

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    This lens is advertised in Wisner's site as covering up to 11x14. If they did sale any, can anyone comment on how this lens performs? Thanks.
     
  2. Francesco

    Francesco Member

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    Does this lens exist at all?
     
  3. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I've never heard of anyone actually owning one, nor have I seen a photograph of the lens. As I recall, he just has a drawing on the website, no?
     
  4. lee

    lee Member

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    If this lens is that casket set he sells, I have never seen on either but I think there is a guy in NJ that has one. His name is JD Beyer. He posts on rec.photo.largeformat sometimes.

    lee\c
     
  5. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

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    not sure about the lens that wisner is selling, but clive russ has a 150mm
    for sale on his website

    http://cliveruss.com/classiclns/hypergon150/hypergon.html

    he has used his on a 11x14, and claims it can cover a 16x20 negative.
    i know it isn't the same lens, but it might give you an idea since it is kind of similar ...

    -john
     
  6. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Wisner's alleged Hypergon is not the casket set and not a Goerz Hypergon. There are Wisner plasmat sets floating around and that one's been reviewed in print.

    On the website, Wisner advertises a modern copy of a Hypergon, that as far as I can tell has never actually been manufactured.
     
  7. lee

    lee Member

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    I stand corrected.

    lee\c
     
  8. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Now the Goertz Hypergon is an interesting lens...

    Looking back in my old literature (Hans Schmidt: "Photographisches Hilfsbuch für ernste Arbeit", 1. Teil, Zweite Auflage, Berlin 1910), they were made in 60, 75, 90, 120, 150, and 200mm focal lengths. Herr Schmidt "only" reports the coverage as 135°, but that is still an image circle of about 5 times the focal length. So the 200mm would cover 1000mm - 40 inches!
    If the "propeller" is missing it will only cover 110° before light falloff gets too extreme - about the same as a Zeiss Protar f:18 of the same vintage.

    Now compare the price of those two classic lenses: A Hypergon 120mm with missing propeller will easily get $2000 on eBay, a Protar 110mm can be had for around $100. So what was the price in Berlin, 1910?

    Hypergon 120 with propeller: 170 Mark
    Hypergon 120 without " : 150 Mark
    Zeiss Protar 110mm : 64 Mark.

    The Hypergon is f:22, the Protar f:18, so that makes no big difference. It's obvious what would have been the best investment, but not what makes the huge price difference today? A Protar is probably a better lens than the Hypergon, at least if you can't use the full image circle!
     
  9. cjarvis

    cjarvis Member

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    Availability would account for the huge price difference today. Hypergons are rarer than hen's teeth.

    I don't think a Protar outperforms a Hypergon. The Hypergon's real claim to fame, besides BIG coverage, is flatness of field.
     
  10. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    There are lots of lenses even rarer than the Hypergon, so it can't be that.

    The extreme coverage is probably the thing, but that coverage is only realistic from a complete Hypergon with working star aperture.

    Flatness of field is probably better in the Protar, and I believe the resolution is significantly better - especially at full aperture. At f:90 it doesn't really matter, as diffraction will limit the resolutoin of just about any lens.
     
  11. cjarvis

    cjarvis Member

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    Perhaps the Protar would win in the flatness of field contest, but I don't think it's a fair comparison anyway. There's a WORLD of difference between 100 degrees of coverage and 135 degrees of coverage. To achieve a relatively flat field from, say, a 90mm lens on an 8x10 is amazing. To do it with a lens built c.1920 is nothing short of extraordinary.

    (And a Protar will never beat a Goerz anything- when it comes to element separation.)
     
  12. veriwide

    veriwide Member

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    I just got the Series V f:18 8x10 Protar, and am looking forward to comparing its field of view with the 100 degrees I get from my Veriwide. To confirm the pricing, I did get the new lens on eBay, and paid @$100 for it.

    Patrick
     
  13. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    One thing is at least certain: A Hypergon will never be plagued with element separation!
     
  14. David R Munson

    David R Munson Member

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    Aren't some of the Process-Nikkor lenses similar in formula to the Hypergons? My 240/10 has massive coverage and as best as I can tell consists only of two extremely curved elements in a symmetrical design.
     
  15. cjarvis

    cjarvis Member

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    I thought the Nikkors were dialytes, like the Artars, but that would conflict with "massive coverage," since the Artars only offer a scant 45 degrees.

    How massive are you talking?
     
  16. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    There's TWO Hypergons for sale on ebay.de at the moment!

    a 120mm and a 60mm. To see then from ebay.com, just search for the item numbers: 3811759558 is the 120mm, 3811759569 is the 60mm. Same guy also has an incredible number of other things photographic - more than 1600 at the same time!

    I find his starting prices are about twice what I'd be willing to pay for most items, otherwise there are quite a few things I would have bought.
     
  17. Emile de Leon

    Emile de Leon Member

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    If you are interested in using the Wisner Hypergon please feel free to contact me. Yes, they can be made/ordered new as a special order item. Each one is hand made and the glass is ground to order. There is a waiting period.I just spoke to Ron Wisner today about this lens (I'm a Wisner camera dealer) and the specs and price have changed. It is a 90mm now with more coverage for 8x10. It might cover 11x14 but I'm not certain about this or how much illumination there is on that format. It is around $3000.00. There have not been very many lenses made of this type. Just a few.
     
  18. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I'd love to try one, but fear that this could be difficult since I live in Norway. I know just where I would go with one, too - where I run out of film size with a 90mm SA on 5x7"!

    Somebody else please give it a go! A 90mm Hypergon should be able to give plenty of movements in tight corners, even with the cos^4 light falloff.
     
  19. Francesco

    Francesco Member

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    A 90mm lens that covers 8x10 with movements! That is impressive. And no distortion of the image?
     
  20. Emile de Leon

    Emile de Leon Member

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    The Hypergon is supposed to be one hell of a lens, nothing else like it. I've seen some photos on various websites with older versions of this lens and they were pretty impressive. Not much distortion that I could see. Maybe in the next year or two I'll spring for one and leave a review. If they are still made that is. Or if a bunch of folks were interested in purchasing maybe we could order at the same time for a quantity discount:wink: