Would it be ethical to say that you studied under......

Discussion in 'Ethics and Philosophy' started by Jim Moore, Dec 15, 2004.

  1. Jim Moore

    Jim Moore Member

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    Let's say that a photographer attended several workshops over the years given by the likes of John Sexton, Michael Smith & Paula Chamlee, Per Volquartz, Etc.

    Would it be "Proper" for him to say in his Bio that he "Studied Under" them?

    Example:

    Joe Photographer has studied under John Sexton, Michael Smith & Paula Chamlee, Per Volquartz and many other well known photographers.
     
  2. bjorke

    bjorke Member

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    It would be ethical.

    Unless he was lying.
     
  3. TPPhotog

    TPPhotog Member

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    Ouch that questions a real b**h. I guess that as it's OK to say the you've studied under Mr local college guy even if it was only a short academic course, the same would apply to a series of or several workshops if they were hands-on.

    I'd add the proviso that if you could ask one of the mentioned photographers for a reference then you are known by them and have studied under them.
     
  4. Dave Parker

    Dave Parker Inactive

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    It is always ethical to cite who you studied under or what seminars you have attended, many don't have the means or the time to do actual full course studies at a photography school, but this does not diminish the education that you have attained by attending workshops and such by these individuals.

    Dave
     
  5. Donald Miller

    Donald Miller Member

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    Why wouldn't it be ethical?
     
  6. Nige

    Nige Subscriber

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    "studied under" and attended a weekend workshop imply different things to me.
     
  7. roteague

    roteague Member

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    Although you do take direction from an instructor (study under) when taking a workshop. Of course, some take "studied under" to mean a long-term relationship. I wouldn't say "studied under" just for a workshop myself, but I'm not sure if it would be ethical or not - that would depend upon what the agreed (traditional) mean of "studied under" means.
     
  8. rbarker

    rbarker Member

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    Personally, I don't think using the phrase "studied under" would be ethical if the exposure was limited to a few workshops. I think most people would interpret "studied under" as meaning a longer-term teacher/student relationship, perhaps approaching that of a multi-year apprenticeship.

    It would be far better, I think, to eliminate the "spin" and just mention the workshops attended - if that's even necessary. Name dropping quickly becomes transparent and often is counter-productive.
     
  9. mark

    mark Member

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    I'm with Ralph. Studied under is a relationship that goes beyond paying for a workshop. Sexton can say he studied under AA.
     
  10. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    I agree with Nige.
    a weekend workshop or 2 -5 years
    I would thing the latter would be correct
    I am not sure that less than 2 years would be appropriate for any kind of proper teaching.
     
  11. jovo

    jovo Membership Council Council

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    Musicians use the term 'studied with' to mean that they committed themselves to learn the specific approach to the instrument or repertoire of a particular teacher. 'Attended the masterclass of', like a weekend photography workshop means only that one was exposed to whatever was being offered without the same committment to learning (and being evaluated as having learned) that curriculum. As several above have said, it would be misleading to deliberately confuse the two relationships. Maybe not unethical, but not exactly honestly forthcoming either.
     
  12. sergio caetano

    sergio caetano Member

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    The best curriculum are your prints.
     
  13. Richard Boutwell

    Richard Boutwell Subscriber

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    On learning:

    This is off the original topic of what is ethical and not.

    At a certain point in the course of artistic development that is certainly true. But not from the start. I firmly believe that concentrated time spent working in the presence of someone you deeply respect (not to mention knows what the hell they are talking about) is the best curriculum. That gives you a base to learn from and compare to. Not to mention the direct feedback on ideas and constant emersion in "the life".

    The alternative is reading, seeing, and working (something that needs to be done in the former case anyway).

    Do I think it is ethical to so that? it doesn't matter. It seems that it could be seen as validating the work. "He must be good. Look at who he has studied under." Which may lead to thinking that the person is insecure about the work.---
    ---But, as part of an artists resume listing the workshops, as classes is appropriate.
     
  14. Tom Stanworth

    Tom Stanworth Member

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    I agree, but don't believe that this rule is applied elsewhere. A lot is to do with luck, bullsh****ng and schmoosing the right people.....who may be susceptible to the effects of name dropping. I do not think it is ethical to say you studied under them. This has connatations of 'time spent studying', rather than being ' briefly instructed by'. It sounds more like a long term mentoring and two way mutual relationship (as would be the case with an apprentiship, a la Sexton and AA). I personally would not dream of using such terms had I attended workshops and would regard it as being legalistic with my words, whilst deliberately intending to mislead. Technically true, yes, but in the knowledge that the majority of people would take the extent of the relationship to be FAR greater than it was.

    Where would you stop? Using such an approach I could massage the factual "I have read several Barry T books" into, "I was fortunate enough to learn a great deal from the late Barry T before his untimely death...becoming fully versed with his procedures......hugely important in my personal development ............grateful for his candour in teaching me the intricacies of.......". Is this a lie? NO, manipulative and deliberately ambiguous and ultimately deceptive, YES.

    Actually I am doing rather well here, I'm sure with time I could get this tripping off the tongue..........

    Tom
     
  15. Andy K

    Andy K Member

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    I wouldn't think it was unethical. But i would think it was 'name-dropping' and showing a lack of confidence in their own abilities.
     
  16. dr bob

    dr bob Member

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    As a semi-professional tenor, I run into this sort of hype a lot. When I reach a situation where credentials matter more than performance, I sometimes beg out. In other situations I ask, "So you studied under <blank>. What did you learn?"
     
  17. Jim Chinn

    Jim Chinn Member

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    I agree that "studied under" implies that you have dedicated a good protion of time with that person in a one to one relationship. Such a term would means to me that one has done an apprenticeship or was an assistant for a lenght of time.

    If you had attended a formal educational setting such as a summer program at a school or university, (say Brooks Institute or the Maine Photographic Workshops) where it was an intensive 10 or 12 weeks, then i think one could get away with it, if you qualified it by citing the circumstances: "I studied under John Sexton, Howard Bond and Sally Mann at a summer long program at the Brooks Institute."

    Otherwise I think you should qualify it with something like: "I have attended numerous workshops with photographer/teachers such as John Sexton, Howard Bond," etc. I think this demonstrates your committment to learning and improving your craft.